A Yoga Teacher Trainer's Advice on Practicing Spirituality with Sian Pascale
Listen to a yoga teacher trainer's advice on practicing spirituality. In this new podcast episode, our guest yoga teacher Sian Pascale shares with us her experiences on her path to being a yoga teacher in training. She shares with us the essence and power of developing a spiritual practice. She also talks about the how and why of practicing spirituality in our lives. Along with that, we also encounter significant concepts in yoga like Vedic and Tantric energy and the power of the Sadhana. .
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A Yoga Teacher Trainer's Advice on Practicing Spirituality with Sian Pascale
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Sian Pascale
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[00:00:00] Host: Hello, my friend, welcome to the today dreamer podcast. I've created this show to be able to help you cultivate your own practice of presence in service, hopefully towards the blossoming of the emergent world story and your participation in that space. So I wanted to begin by extending out a deep sense of gratitude.
[00:00:30] I feel as though my guests and I, as well as every single being listening are all in a beautiful family with one another. And I wanted to let you know that I'm here for you to support your process and that you're in a safe space in sinking into this episode. And yeah, you're deeply, deeply held by my intention and commitment.
[00:00:58] To in service of you and your own journey. And I feel as though us coming together in this space, which I'm hoping to kind of provide in an authentic way, may allow for an amplification of our beautiful, you know, innate qualities and, um, different ways and, and unique forms of participation and, um, contribution toward, towards the continual unfolding.
[00:01:36] So it's you a little bit about today's guest before we move into the conversational space, her name is C PAs. This will be an exploration into the hard and mind of a yoga teacher, trainer, practitioner, and student. So cyan is the founder of. The light collective and teachers, students, as well as teachers, the power of PMA, mantra, Kini, meditation, and tantric practices.
[00:02:11] So we'll be exploring this YOIC path and, ah, we'll have an open exploration into the power of a consistent practice. And yeah, I really, really, um, it's my deepest intention that you, that you get something quite, um, useful out of this and that you're able to really connect with the energy and the space, uh, in the here and now.
[00:02:40] So instead of taking our usual conscious breaths before moving into a podcast, um, what we're gonna do today is allow our guests to lead that kind of introductory secret trajectory sequence. And. Open into things from there. If you would like to connect more deeply with me and with the community here on the podcast, feel free to send me an email Michael today, dreamer.com or you can head over to today, dreamer.com and check out what's available in terms of offerings and, um, you know, bits and pieces that may help you along your own unfolding journey.
[00:03:22] Okay. I think that's it for me. Let's get into things and thank you again.
[00:03:29] Guest: Wonderful. Okay. So this little practice is what I teach all of my teachers and I start by just rubbing the hands together, closing the eyes, and then pressing the palms and taking a deep breath in the nose and out the mouth.
[00:03:52] You can breathe normally. We bring in an intention to let go of all that is mundane in every day, the cyclical thoughts, or the everyday mind, the secondary habits and ways of being you let it go.
[00:04:18] And we align our consciousness towards all that is divine. Subline universal, eternal.
[00:04:33] And from this positive state of consciousness, you might like to take the palms to face up as we consecrate, but as we offer up all of the carmic fruits, anything good or bad from. Such song that we have today, this discussion, this meeting of community, whatever unfolds, we offer it all up to a greater power.
[00:05:01] Any name that you might give that the universe or divine consciousness. And then we wait for our response. You'll sense it from above
[00:05:22] then
[00:05:38] gently release the hands, deepen the breath and open the eyes.
[00:05:49] Thank you for letting me drop in.
[00:05:54] Host: Mm. You really liked enjoyed the, the waiting for a response.
[00:06:00] Guest: Yeah. That receptive mode. It's powerful, isn't it?
[00:06:08] Mm, yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:13] Host: Yeah. Thank you for that. That was really nice. You're welcome. It's a beautiful way to begin.
[00:06:17] Guest: Yeah, no problem.
[00:06:19] Host: Mm. So
[00:06:22] um, the power of an intense period of, of practice, um, which is consistent, uh, before the release of a break mm-hmm uh, yeah. What kind of comes up for you? When I, when I, when I kind. Out of those words and yeah, I mean, it's kind of a nice timing cuz where you mentioned things were at, at the moment in terms of, um, you know, being at that point between work and, and then taking a break and yeah, I'm wondering, um, what you could share around and mm-hmm um, yeah.
[00:07:04] What's most of life for you in that space. Uh, presently and, and what's maybe been some learnings from the past if that's not too much to kind of load up
[00:07:14] Guest: ha thank you. Um, sorry. I suppose the first thing that does come to mind is that word sad Sarna, which is such a huge part of my world and what I teach for people and bringing consistency into.
[00:07:31] A daily spiritual practice. And whether that consistency is simply showing up every day or whether the consistency is around the particular practice that you decide to do. I think that having consistency is really important. It is important for us now in this, uh, phase of evolution to have a spiritual practice.
[00:07:57] I truly believe that we need a spiritual practice in order to kind of manage the intensity of energy that it is to be alive right now in 2022 and all that we're kind of faced with, uh, from the influx of information. That's always there on social media and, um, from the news and, uh, from all of the things that we can learn even, and from podcasts.
[00:08:26] I mean, it, it can sometimes be. Slightly overwhelming the amount that is almost kind of, uh, out there and potentially kind of drawing its way towards us. And I think that what the Sader does is it allows your pocket, a spaciousness to be discerning and selective with what you take into your world. And, and it also allows you to, to have a spaciousness, to, to decide what action you wanna take in the world.
[00:09:03] And for me, the consistency of the sad helps me live my life. And this is something that I try and also teach my students. Is that as powerful as the experiences are in your. Daily spiritual practice, because you can transcend, or you can tap into states of love, or you can feel really grounded and in your body, in your Sader until it becomes a state of consciousness that is so embodied that it flows out into your life and becomes part of your being and who you are, and it affects your day to day world.
[00:09:47] Then no, it isn't necessarily working like having the, having the two as separate is, is in some ways missing the point of what it is to be in this human Carn incarnation. And so for me, the consistency of practice allows me to not escape from the world, but rather to be in it with more presence, to be more grounded, to.
[00:10:15] Listen to a question like that and not have a thought process going on of an ideal of what I, I want to be asked and not focusing on you. It allows me to, um, be grounded, not just with other people, but in my body as I move through the world so that we were talking before, even when I am busy going through periods of intense work, which I have been the last three months to always be kind of grounded in my body and checking in with what I need physically and in the physical realm.
[00:10:55] So for me, a, a sad, a daily spiritual practice also allows me to kind of move into the world with a sense of sacredness, so that there's a reverence. Uh, in even mundane tasks where I can do my best to bring a sense of sacred into my life so that it isn't just a, a time in my day, which is one hour, or if I'm stretched half an hour or 15 minutes, it's usually a lot longer than that.
[00:11:30] But, um, even if it was that, that it, isn't just allocated to one part of my life that I through the consistency of that can see how it flowers and it unfolds into my daily rhythm as well. So I encourage consistency because without it. It remains separated. It remains compartmentalized if you do it once a week.
[00:12:01] And, um, you can only do it when all of the conditions are perfect when the kids are out and you are in a good mood and your, your perfect yoga teacher or spiritual practitioner is leading the class, then there's no opportunity for it to kind of flood yourselves and your finances and, and create change that unfolds within your daily existence.
[00:12:31] Host: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. We were talking earlier, just, just briefly around this idea of the flow on effect, and I'm kind of curious how you may shape or structure or design, um, these practices, these, these, um, you know, periods of practice and how much kind of. Inspira where the inspiration may come from from them and yeah.
[00:12:55] Where the elements may come from to kind of piece together what that flow on effect may be in a, in an intentional way.
[00:13:03] Guest: Yeah. What a great question. How do I create my own Saer is really at the core of that. I think, uh, well, it, it, it's very dependent. Sometimes I will create it for myself and this happens a lot, very intuitively based on what's happening in my life at the time or in my body or in my mind.
[00:13:32] So recently I had some whiplash and I felt as though, um, my nervous system really needed a lot of gentle care and I could, I could sense how just the action that happened in my neck. Created this energetic follow on effect. I'm now quite, almost hypersensitive to what's happening in my body, but the power in that is that.
[00:14:00] And the flexibility that I guess I have in my own Sader is that I'm, I'm not stuck on one practice as being the only practice. So in this particular case, although on the daily, I would do a mantra meditation. I would sit upright and I repeat my mantra internally, and this is something that I would do without fail right now as a way of, um, uh,
[00:14:29] I guess resolving the issue, healing or supporting myself. I don't feel like that practice is supportive and I've learned as a spiritual practitioner to step out of any guilt or shame that comes from having to shift a sadness. When I know that it comes from a deep wisdom and intuition and inner knowing I'm not doing it out of laziness.
[00:14:53] Uh, I know that I'm doing it to support myself, so I'm happy to change my sadness so that at the moment now it includes, uh, a yoga Nira practice and I'll do a lying down guided practice of yoga nidra. and I won't feel any guilt about it or feel like, oh, I should be sitting upright or I should, I should be doing something else.
[00:15:17] Or I shouldn't even be guided should be at a stage where I'm never being guided by anyone. I think, no, right now my nervous system needs that. And so in certain periods of my life, I know because intuitively something is arising and I create a, a habit of self love or self care, which is supportive at that time.
[00:15:42] And there are other times when there's nothing particularly pressing going on or there's nothing really strong in my body or intuition. And so what I will at times do is I have to create a personal starter and. That takes a lot of willpower and discipline. I have to say willpower and discipline is really at a heart of a lot of YOIC practice, but I think that the discipline is very VAD and the, uh, the absorption and option and, uh, the juicy sensory presence is veryt trick.
[00:16:30] And so I like to combine the two. So even if I have a discipline and it could be chaning mantra, so I could say to myself, okay, let's create a discipline of. A month of chanting dietary mantra for 108 rounds every day. That could be an example of something I might decide. And I'm often motivated by my students as well.
[00:16:54] And I bounce off what's going on in, in their Sarna or the work that I'm teaching. It can be really inspiring for me. And I think that's okay because I still keep my teaching and my start a separate. And when I go into a practice like that, I just have to ensure that I don't get lost in the discipline of it, because then it turns into another thing on your to-do list.
[00:17:20] And I think for me, the power of moving more towards a, a tongue trick path is that even though I've had a lot of vague teachings, and I know that personally, I have quite a strong inner will and personal sense of discipline. I have to always remember that there needs to be a kind of energy of the heart, a loving energy, a juiciness, a sensory aspect, and a strong, loving intention behind it all to keep it.
[00:17:53] It's almost like there's a, it's like it can become dry and britle, or it can be kind of like juicy and a bit moist and a bit full of yuminess right. It's like dry chocolate cake or like really nice, you know, Mond mud cake or something. And so for me, even when I have this discipline, I think that I have been fortunate enough to have, uh, a lot of teachings in the last seven or eight years, eight years now that, uh, kind of bring.
[00:18:33] A a really, a really kind of yummy quality to even having a daily spiritual practice and it can get lost. Believe me, like I can just sometimes sit down and I find myself doing a mantra and there's no heart and soul behind it. And it still works. Right. It still has some kind of positive impact on me, but I know it when I go into it, even with more depth of feeling that it expands even more, it kind of expands more in my life.
[00:19:08] Host: Mm. So what I'm hearing is, is there's a mixture of kind of, what's alive for you in the moment, in terms of your interaction with students and all these kind of practices that you may have learned from a variety of different teachers. And then, you know, what's kind of alive for you in terms of in your body and in that, in that present moment.
[00:19:27] And then there's just kind of this intuitive feeling into process. Then you design something and then you kind of stick to it with this flexibility of adjustment, depending on what the needs of the moment are. I I've got some curiosity around the teachings and you mentioned the kind of VA path and the tantric one as well.
[00:19:45] And I'm wondering, yeah, I've got a wondering around, um, how your experience has been as, as a student and how this is kind of, I'm sure we could get into, into some interesting spaces in terms of how much you've learned as a teacher and an ongoing student, but I'm wondering more about maybe the roots of, uh, your practice and, and how that's developed over time and how you've, you know, worked with various teachers, found them, decided to kind of devote yourself to the teachings and, and, um, move from, from space to space through that journey.
[00:20:18] Guest: Wow. You have really complex questions. I love them. They're very nuanced. um, I suppose when it comes to these two streams, uh, of yoga or lineages of yoga that is VAD and Tre, and I, I still have to say that for me, I'm discerning the difference between the two. And I think that, uh, in the yoga world, most people don't really realize that they are teaching a combination of both.
[00:20:51] And a lot of it has filtered into new age ways of. Talking that also kind of flavors, the yoga world, people just kind of take from here, there and everywhere. And so even in a yoga teacher training with the best of intentions, there will be this kind of mush of the two, which, Hey, I'm not here to say is a bad thing.
[00:21:14] I'm I am still personally trying to untangle all of the things that I've learned and figure out which ones are VEIC, which ones are T trick, which ones are just kind of new age. And also which aspects of these teachings do I personally align with? Uh, so I'm still very much on the path of discovery and untangling myself.
[00:21:37] Uh, and I suppose that my training.
[00:21:45] Personally began with a physical practice and the physical. Okay. No, that's not true before that I was meditating. So I started with a meditation practice at 16, and then at 19, I started a physical practice and the physical practice, uh, I did for 12 years pretty consistently. And it was quite masculine in nature in that it was a set sequence and you were meant to do it every day.
[00:22:16] And it didn't matter where you were on your cycle or how you were feeling in your body. You just kind of show up. And that taught me a lot about consistency, which we were describing before about what a daily spiritual practice is. But, uh, I think that it had a lot of benefits, but also for me, It lost the, um, the idea that my body could be informing me in my spiritual practice and that my body is part of my spiritual experience.
[00:22:50] And, uh, I, I went on to do, to, to live in India. And in my time in India, I was continuing with this path of, uh, yoga, this kind of quite masculine path. And then I happened to come across one of my teachers in India and she just did things so differently. Like she was just, everybody loved her. Everybody loved her classes and people would talk about her classes and just say they were unlike anything.
[00:23:21] And I started to practice with her and this woman was able to draw in so much of what she knew. And it wasn't in a way that felt like this kind of, uh, Bits and pieces Ola of anything that she picked up. She was well trained in a Rivera and, um, massage therapy and Kreer and, uh, Vinyasa Flos and PMA. And she knew all of this staff that I had never been taught in a yoga class before it, I mean, when I first started practicing yoga, this was 20 years ago and it just wasn't what it is today.
[00:24:05] And, and when I started to learn from her, it was, I, I learned so much through osmosis with her. She, she would weave things into classes with such skill and, um, eventually it came to the point where, uh, she needed some support as a teacher. And I offered my support and I knew the arsonist, just like the back of my hand by then, you know, like.
[00:24:30] Teaching a yoga class for me was no issue, even though I hadn't properly been trained, but she said to me, if you wanna do this, then you have to show up to my classes. Every single one you've gotta show up. And so she really called upon a sense of discipline in the student. And I had to really be devoted to her as a teacher, because even when I felt tired or at that time I was drinking, you know, I was living in India, living the party life, and that, you know, I'd have a glass of wine or two at some fancy opening that I was at.
[00:25:01] And I'd still have to shop for my yoga practice and pay the price the next day. And it built up a beautiful relationship that she never, I guess she never wanted to be called a guru ever. She hated that term. And she was like, I am your soul sister. We are here together. And it was, uh, it was really anti hierarchical, which is quite unusual, especially in India.
[00:25:28] So. It kind of opened up a connection between us that it was still, I was learning from her. I was very much the student. She was very much the teacher and I was fortunate enough to be in that situation for a couple of years. And for me, I learned so much in that in just being in her presence and what she taught, uh, me was to expand my teachings beyond the physical and to understand more of the energy body, the history, the philosophy, she was very hands on with her students in terms of adjusting.
[00:26:08] She was very present with people. She was fun. She would shout at people. She was just like, so authentic. She'd be like you, what are you doing? Like what do you, you know, and she'd be like, you shouldn't be doing this. We have yoga teachers in the room. She'd be like, no, no, not for you. she's just great. It was.
[00:26:28] And you like other Indian teachers, they'd just like pull you into this insane adjustment. There wasn't like consent and agency. She'd just grab my leg and it'd be like up to my head. And she's just, she was intense that authentic and fiery, and she was just real and it extended out into her life. And I knew her in her personal life.
[00:26:49] So she was a really great, um, a great example for me. And I'd had other teachers that I'd adored before her as well, but she gave me something new and. After that I did my, my certification. I'd been teaching in India for a couple of years, UN certified , but I kinda knew what I was doing in terms of us and I wasn't teaching anything.
[00:27:13] I didn't know. And then I got certified and realized how much, I didn't know. And this is when everything opened up for me, like getting certified in that first teacher training. And I was taught by a group of teachers who were T Trickers. They didn't advertise it. And like T trick teachers actually don't advertise.
[00:27:33] They don't put themselves out there. And if you go to India, they're not telling people about it because it's very underground, like a real, the real lineage. And why
[00:27:44] Host: is that? If you don't mind me asking?
[00:27:46] Guest: Well, I think it's part of a tradition, I suppose, of secrecy that started well. I mean, that's part of the YOIC tradition anyway, that.
[00:27:58] These teachings are not meant for everyone. That's, that's kind of why they are written in code and why you need a teacher, um, that there needs to be a certain level of readiness in the student before they're able to come to this. But also because I suppose, um, during the period of time when TK teachings were flourishing around about a thousand years ago, ago, or so the Muslim invaders came into India and TRO is really a, a worship of the divine feminine in all of its aspects.
[00:28:31] And so the Muslim invaders came in and saw it as heresy. And so all of the goddess temples were destroyed. Um, all of the texts, the tradition basically had to go underground and went into total secrecy. And I think it really has a kind of, um, has a lot of its roots that that kind of secret aspect has a lot of its roots in the fact.
[00:28:59] Yeah, a lot of it had to go completely underground. It wasn't safe for people to practice. They couldn't practice it, um, out in the open. And what we know of tantra today has only been salvaged by families like very brave families. A lot of them in the Kashmir region, in Northern India who were trich family, who were tantric families who hold the texts over generations and kept them safe and hidden.
[00:29:25] And when they became destroyed, they would, um, rewrite all of the texts, not very often even knowing what they were referring to. And so, like not only did we lose most of the classical trich tradition, but, um, of that tradition of the texts that are available to us, so few have been correctly translated.
[00:29:47] So, and then the other aspect of it is that a lot of it is really misunderstood because within TTRA. There's the right hand path, which is publicly practiced techniques. And then there's the left hand path, which are privately practiced techniques, which are ritualistic in, um, nature. And some of them do include certain sexual practices.
[00:30:11] And those are the things that everyone in the west has kind of focused their attention on. Um, and there's a certain private aspect. And tho the teachers who are teaching those kinds of things, they're not advertising. I mean, both really in India in any case, but you know, things are changing times are changing.
[00:30:32] Information is out there. And I suppose it's more about trying to find that, which is legitimate. Yeah. It's hard to know.
[00:30:41] Host: So after, so yeah, that ties the legitimacy thing kind of ties into the certification, um, coming, you made, was there a reason you felt, um, quite enliven by, you know, or things really started to take off after that point?
[00:30:53] Was there something in the study itself or was it the, the fact that you were certified that gave you more confidence?
[00:30:59] Guest: Uh, look for me now. I, I look back and think, oh my God, how could I have taught without being certified? But my teacher was saying to me, oh, it doesn't matter. She, she didn't mind. And it wasn't an issue.
[00:31:10] But now for me, I say with everything, especially anything even remotely to do with DRA, you wanna be certified in fully initiated into it. It's, it's a different thing. It's a, it's a specific process when you go through a training. Uh, and I see it in that, uh, first experience in a yoga teacher training, you step up on a different level.
[00:31:35] So you are there, you are dedicating your time. and I say this to my train trainees as well. You can't do it at the same time as having everything else. So you can't do a teacher training and expect to hang onto the life that you are currently leading. Whether it's your work life, your family life, whether it is, um, condition states of mind that you are wanting to keep the same.
[00:32:02] You can't, you've gotta give something up. You have to create space for it. And when you create space for a training in your life, if that means you've gotta fly to India for a month, or you've got to give up three hours of your week, if it's something different in creating that space, you are saying like, I'm ready for this.
[00:32:24] I'm willing to give something up, to create something new in my life. And I suppose that that's really important. If you're somebody who's creating a teacher training that you ensure that people. Have to in some way commit that commitment is a really important thing in being a spiritual teacher. Because honestly, there are very few people in the industry who are able to commit to things.
[00:32:49] It is, it is part of the nature of the kind of work that I do, where people are flaky and they bypass having to have integrity. And I think that when you step into a, a dedicated spiritual training, you have to focus yourself in a certain way. And it brings with it so many revelations. So for me, Doing that teacher training made me step up.
[00:33:18] It gave me a focused space to look at my spiritual world that wasn't distracted by my other career and my emotional world and my relationships. And I was able to go into retreat. But also I have to say that it was the techniques themselves that were so awakening for me because I was really learning the pre armor.
[00:33:46] This was probably the biggest one. I had a really strong ass in a practice. I had a really strong meditation practice. I'd been doing both for 12, 15 years already by then, but what really shifted for me was learning about PERMA and also learning about the yoga philosophy. I am naturally quite an academic person and I love learning and.
[00:34:13] I love philosophy. And I, I, I love working with ideas and both of those things were a massive revelation when I'd been taught that, um, it was 99% practice and kind of 1%, I don't know what the other 1% was meant to be like, you're in your mind, 1% of the time and the rest of the time, you're in your body practicing.
[00:34:40] And it was this huge thing to go, wow, there's there are all these books and texts and there's so much, there's so much to learn. And also I have this energy body that I kind of have felt in my meditations, but now I can control my energy and I can shift my moods through P Yama. And I can, I can kind of change my world like that in.
[00:35:07] In two minutes, my entire internal experience can shift. So for me, it was definitely that dedication and stepping up, but it was most certainly also the practices that I was taught. And I was, I was lucky enough to be taught practices, I suppose, that it, uh, quite, um, tongue trick in nature, the, the Panama practices.
[00:35:34] And the interesting thing that I found when I left was that nobody else was really teaching them. Mm-hmm . And so I was so blown away by them and so annoyed that nobody else had taught them to me, that it just became part of my teaching. Vocabulary that I had to teach this work. So I'd be teaching a yoga class, but I'd be sliding in per armor wherever I could.
[00:35:59] And people were coming out of the classes, loving the, that work. I mean, to be honest as well, I have to say mantra also was revealed to me where like, I'd always been so self-conscious and like cringy with mantra, like, oh, devotional singing, like, oh, how to Christian vibe, that kind of thing. And it made me really step out of that.
[00:36:21] And I, I found the power of mantras as well, and I would bring them into my classes because I felt as though nobody had taught it to me before. And I think that it probably wasn't part of their trainings. I think that I got lucky with my particular training and I think that it was probably a case of the right timing and also maybe a sense of inner confidence that I had that maybe other teachers at the time.
[00:36:50] Didn't have as much of in my surroundings. Um, so I felt really free to teach the work that I loved and that had changed me. Um, yeah. And from there, I suppose, I don't know whether you wanna go back to that question about teachers and a bit about that devotional thing, but I mean, I've had, I suppose in my life, I, some students have the great fortune to just have one teacher and they follow that singular path and that's it, which I think is like such a gift.
[00:37:29] And then there are other people like me and other people around the world who have many teachers, which I also think is a great gift too, because I feel as though I'm. Opened up to a lot of different ideas. And so for me, some of the teachers that I've had have been physical in person, I had a, uh, a TTRA teacher, uh, for who I met in India.
[00:37:54] And I worked with him for two and a half or so years, and I learned a lot, but I had to release from that relationship. And, um, that happens in the world of TTRA. There's a lot of just really poor conduct that goes on. It's a messy, messy, messy world. So you have to be so careful of anyone who calls themselves a TTRA teacher.
[00:38:21] Even though sometimes I say that about myself, you have to be really, really careful calling yourself that, and you have to be really careful going to teachers who say that that's what they are. There's just so, so much messiness in that world. Um, and I guess I was lucky to be able to, uh, step out of that relationship, relatively unscathed, which was good.
[00:38:46] Um, and I've had other teachers and a lot of them have let me down and, um, I have had to find a way through, uh, devotion and critical thinking and being a woman and, and find teachers who I admire and find a way through doing this work because at the end of the day, the people who are teaching are not necessarily goods because the true goodo is an enlightened band.
[00:39:24] Who incarnates back in human form chooses to come back to the physical plane so that they can enlighten as many people as possible in Buddhi. And this would be like the SP sat bar in yoga. This is the goodo, and most people are just humans out there who have gone deep into their practice, have got great teachings.
[00:39:47] Often they're very charismatic and they're humans figuring their stuff out. And a lot of times getting caught up in power and ego along the way and hurting their students. And so working with teachers, I think nowadays you have to go in with this balance of both critical mindset and also a sense of intuitive trust and devotion.
[00:40:17] So that intuition is guiding you. And when it feels off, listen to it, talk to the teacher, feel into it and have a sense that you don't necessarily have to stay with someone. Or if you hear that a teacher has, you know, maybe done something wrong or has done something that you feel is out of alignment, then you don't have to stay with that person.
[00:40:42] There should never be any sense that there is a commitment that is unbreakable. And this could just be on a very, um, small level where I remember a teacher in India that I had joined a course with and he kept making fun of student. Who would ask questions? He had this whole thing of ask me anything. You can ask me whatever you want.
[00:41:06] And then a student would ask a question and he'd make them feel really small. And I was, it felt so icky in my body and I couldn't figure it out. I was about 21 at the time and I realized what was going on and I stepped away and I felt so light in my body once I'd left him as a teacher. And there should always be that permission to, to leave if necessary.
[00:41:28] And, um, it can be, it can be worse. Like the misdeeds can be much, much worse, especially, um, in the world of Ture. But, you know, I have found my way through it. And, um, I have continued to teach the things that have really shifted me because so often people have incredible techniques and teachings there that, um, we don't want to be lost.
[00:41:56] And the only way to heal. This tradition is by teaching them in a way that is healthy. And by being a kind of as clearer channel as possible and leaving yourself outside of the room and not bringing your mess into it and not using your teachings as your own process. I think all of those things help to heal the lineage.
[00:42:19] If you are present and you are doing the work and you have your Sader as a teacher, then you can show up and gift these incredible techniques to other people. And they're not, um, heavy with the burdens of previous teachers misdeeds in a way. But apart from that, I have had really positive experiences with teachers.
[00:42:43] And, um, I tend now to work more with female teachers. Uh, it is an easier relationship I've found, and I really try and listen to my gut when it comes to following teachers. But some of the teachers that I have had who I really trust, aren't always ones that I've worked with in person. So I would still consider teachers like Ruda and kart tole and, uh, Christopher har Wallace, who I only know from their online teachings and from their books as being a really important part of, uh, my life as a, as a practitioner.
[00:43:25] Um, and I still see them as my teachers, even though I haven't had the good fortune of being in any of their presence physically. Yeah.
[00:43:34] Host: So thank you for sharing that and thank you for that insight into your experience and, and kind of, yeah, I'm just getting this kind of real light of integrity and, and purity coming from these kind of darker spaces, which is, which is an interesting outcome.
[00:43:48] Um, I'm, I'm kind of wondering now around, so you mentioned kind of these kind of figures, um, that you've, that you've learned from sounds like on a personal basis. And then these kind of, um, bigger kind of, um, I'd say bigger, but you know what I mean, in terms of, um, these people that you haven't met in person, but, you know, they're, they're kind of lessons ripple through, um, time and space and I'm, I'm kind of wondering around more kind of, uh, personal teachers like your students, or even maybe how yoga might have informed, um, your relational space and, um, how you, you possibly have learned from people around you and.
[00:44:31] Um, you know, and how, yeah, just kind of, yeah. What comes up when I, when I, when I ask into that, into that sphere. And is there anything that's kind of alive for you in terms of, um, the, the one-on-one intimate relationships that inform your practice and vice versa?
[00:44:48] Guest: Yeah. I think that your personal relationships are often your biggest teachers.
[00:44:53] Isn't that what they say that you like biggest challenge and your biggest teacher and a mirror to your own internal world? Um, I suppose the one that stands out for me, uh, would be the relationship I have with my own father who passed away. And, um, how that experience of him passing was one of the biggest shifts for me, I would say in the way I, um, was able to drop into my heart.
[00:45:28] I think that some people are born naturally heart centered, and you kind of know those people. They're like, come in, give me a hug. And they're kind of all heart and soul and you just kind of, oh, those people. Um, I don't think that I was that kind of person. I think that I'm a quite fiery person. I'm, I'm ambitious.
[00:45:50] I think there's a softness and a sweetness to me. Definitely. But there is an inner strength in me, uh, very resilient. And, uh, when I was. Faced with this kind of depth of grief and feeling was always a deeply feeling human. My, my moon is in Scorpio. If that means anything to you. So I like go deep and all of my feelings, I was always deeply feeling that I suppose.
[00:46:16] Um, it was that deep grief. It was like, I'd always been kind of like I felt here and then I felt here and then I felt here and then suddenly I was like, oh, feel down here. somewhere off the zoom call, like way down in the center appear. And, uh, the depth of my grief, um, really gave me so much compassion. Uh, it was the kind of compassion that I always felt really grateful for.
[00:46:47] Even when I was in it. I knew that my grief was allowing me to be a more loving person and it allowed me to. Support other people who were grieving and in a way I would not wish at all for any more grief because I have had quite a lot of grief. I've had a lot of death in my life since then. There's been a lot of tricky things that have gone on in my life, uh, that have caused grief.
[00:47:18] But at the same time, I feel as though there must have been some part of me, uh, at a deep level that really required that, um, learning of compassion and it has really supported me in my friendships. And it just allows me to understand other people. That's probably the biggest one. And I suppose as well, what came with the death of my father were some really profound, spiritual experiences.
[00:47:53] Related to being able to communicate with him on the astral realm and having very, uh, I've always been pretty strong as meaning, like I have very vivid dreams, some of which are dreams, but I can loser dreams. I can. Um, and I have messages come through in dreams and, uh, some of my dreams are just like wacky, weird dreams that are just, you know, psychedelic in nature.
[00:48:22] And then others, uh, feel like real experiences and real conversations. And, uh, I had real profound ones communications with my dad on this astrol level, which I think kind of was a really profound spiritual teaching for me as well. Um, and it was a really profound, spiritual experience. I had a lot of them, so it would be nightly.
[00:48:51] After he died. And then after about six months, I say he would come. That's the way it felt to me. Like he would be with me, um, every second night. And then over the course of two or three years, it kind of, it stopped. It was almost like he knew that I needed that support or, you know, depending on the kind of person you are and how you perceive these things, it could have just been my own mind creating that.
[00:49:17] And because of the nature of consciousness, I have no issues in other people who think that that's the way it goes, because consciousness is everything. So I, I think that those experiences expanded me spiritually and, um, And I'm really grateful for them really grateful. Uh, so that is probably one of the biggest teachers I would say.
[00:49:43] Uh, and then, you know, if you wanna get into like the juicy gossip of my love life, if that's where we're going, just kidding.
[00:49:53] Host: I mean, I'm quite, I know there's a real sacredness around this, but I have got a curiosity around the, the specificity of, of, of the lessons from your dreams. Um, that's quite a beautiful thing, which you just shared.
[00:50:06] And, um, I know some of that stuff's quite, um, personal and close and even to speak the words, um, may kind of take away from it. So I kind of respect that at the same time, but I just wanted to highlight that curiosity, I guess,
[00:50:19] Guest: around what messages came through from my dad. Yeah. Itself, you know, what's, it's so interesting because with him, when I would spend time with him, I remember, I mean, it happened a lot at the start, so there were so many experiences, but I remember this one experience where I, it was like, it was like a hyper reality where it's more real than this and I could, I could smell him and I could see, I just remember in his hands, like, I, it was like I could go into the cracks between the skin cells and there was this kind of like light radiating from within him.
[00:51:02] I could, that I could see. And so I would have, I would have a kind of visceral learning about, say the light body through just sitting with him. But what would always happen is I would go into this thing where I would say, dad, I really miss you. And then he would leave. Now. It was like, um, I was trying to hold onto or grasping and he would just be like, okay, time's up.
[00:51:27] That would then
[00:51:30] learning on grasping there. And, um, a learning on letting go. And sometimes we would have conversations which were like this conversations and it would, I would wake up and they'd be gone. But when I was in the dream, I would be a hundred percent lucid to the point where I'd be saying C, remember all of this, remember it, you're gonna forget it.
[00:51:57] Don't forget it. But I think that it was almost that a lot of what we were saying was probably not able to be processed by me on a conscious level, but there are two that I have come through. mm-hmm one was that there is an afterlife. And that there was, there is another experience. So it doesn't end with the physical body dying.
[00:52:26] That was one that came through once. Um, and then the other one, which is the teaching I've never had before we were talking about the process that he went through of dying. And what he said to me was that the process of dying is a process of constant surrender. You have to keep surrendering into death, to death, and it's, it's like the way I can say it now is that there is, first of all, you've gotta learn to let go of the physical body on some level.
[00:53:10] So if you've ever been with somebody who's dying, It's almost like there needs to be permission for them to leave. Like it's okay. You can go because they hang onto the physical body. It's kind of the first layer, I suppose, of letting go. But with the letting go, it continues on after the physical body. So it was that he had to let go of himself as being John and himself as being somebody who worked hard every day, who was a father and all of the, um, conditions or the kind of the, the trappings of the self or our personality, self, all of those have to be let go of every memory.
[00:54:04] It, it was like, it was this unfolding process of release and surrender. And that's the kind of. An insight that I can remember from these dreams, but interestingly, a lot of them were left in the realms of my deep subconscious mind perhaps. And I don't know whether I'm able to maybe transmit all of them or even understand all of them.
[00:54:34] But yeah, I feel grateful to even have that teaching because it's not one that I've ever heard before that I remember. Mm. Yeah.
[00:54:54] Host: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that problem.
[00:55:01] Yeah. Mm-hmm, sorry. I'm just conscious of time. And it feels like, yeah, it kind of feels like just the beginning in some ways,
[00:55:05] Guest: but I know, right. That's always the way we could talk for
[00:55:09] Host: hours. Yeah. I guess it's kind of. Similar to the first message of your father kind of fading at that point in a way. Um, but I'd love to hear about the light collective and your online yoga school.
[00:55:25] And, um, anything you'd like to share into the space around that is most welcome at this at this moment.
[00:55:32] Guest: Okay. Thank you. So I suppose, you know, bit of my journey was that I became a yoga teacher. I was once an architect and I was teaching a lot and teaching for other people. And then there was a kind of big rupture in my life that meant that all of that ended.
[00:55:55] And I was at a point of zero and I needed to create something new. And from that came the light collective, which, um, Wasn't always an online yoga school. It started with me just teaching the things that I loved. And I did a lot of work with, um, natural rhythms and cycles, which still happens today. So I started with outdoor practices and, um, big community practices where we'd have a few hundred people come together and it was all free.
[00:56:29] And then I did full moon yoga, and I didn't even know what full moon yoga was, but I knew I wanted to practice on the full moon and connect with that cycle. And that turned into a monthly event. And then I started to build my students and I created retreats. And it was really hard at that point to talk about what the light collective was, uh, because I would be doing the kind of yoga that I guess a lot of people didn't really practice at that time.
[00:57:01] And. For me, it was, uh, a yoga practice that was embedded in the spiritual, the physical and the energetic. And as I learned more about tantra, I realized that a lot of the work I was doing had that kind of flavor, meaning that I was very much about being embodied, uh, connecting to the power of the energy body and working with the mind, uh, to shift energy and to connect with the feminine energy of Shakti, the seasons, the cycles, the natural world, and all of this is highly feminine in nature or flavor.
[00:57:48] So a lot of the work that I was doing had that aspect to it. Um, I began teaching teachers out of a need. So I had teachers who didn't know the work that I was teaching and wanted to learn. And so I began to teach other teachers because they were coming to me wanting to know, and this for me was such a natural and easy space to be.
[00:58:17] And I love teaching teachers. I feel as though I can go really deep with them. And that is really empowering for me as a teacher. So a lot of the work that I then began to focus on was on teacher trainings in differing kinds of, uh, I suppose, focuses. So I, I was creating, um, trainings around mantra and meditation and breath work and all of the things that you couldn't really get in a teacher training and the energy body, and understanding how to control the energy body and then on self practice and Korea, Korea, yoga.
[00:59:05] Um, and so all of these, um, practices started to kind of gr become more P. And so what the light collective started as it just, we always say it's like its own energy. It's like Shakti herself. She just kind of moves in the way she wants to move. And I'm kind of following after the TLC, you know, like what are we doing now?
[00:59:28] It's like, okay, now we're this kind of solid yoga school. And I mean, I think sometimes I do things a bit backwards. Like I started with all these advanced teacher trainings and now we've finally created, um, a, a 200 hour yoga teacher training. And so I suppose with that, what I am hoping to do is give people who are wanting to become yoga teachers, this, this energetic focus in the way they teach, where PERMA is involved, mantra are involved.
[01:00:02] It's a soulful kind of practice and to give them all of the tools so that they can go out there, teach. From their own voice, feel empowered and strong enough to teach authentically, but they've got this kind of incredible array of techniques. This is what I kind of really hope. I hope that the work that we are doing can create a sort of soulful yoga.
[01:00:28] And I've had a lot of students like teachers in Melbourne, which is my hometown, Melbourne Australia. And I see it. I, I, I feel really proud to see my teachers and their online and their singing mantras or their teaching breathwork and their kind of out there in the world. And this is the thing that I really hope that this, this body of work that we've created at the light collective does it starts to spread yoga in a way that is much more than the physical that's highly energetic.
[01:01:02] And also that is taught from a feminine voice because. A lot of these bigger teacher training schools, um, and the people who are really big in the spiritual world are masculine in energy. And it can lead to a sense that, um, there isn't a kind of care nurturing and soft quality to the way students feel they need to practice.
[01:01:33] So for example, like in the world of breathwork, when people think about BR big breathwork teachers or famous breathwork teachers, or really popular ones, they're often giving strong, cathartic, big breath practices. You gotta do them every day. And it doesn't matter how you're feeling and just could go hard.
[01:01:52] And then you gotta jump in some ice. like, what? oh my God, I don't wanna do that every single day. It definitely works for some people and maybe it works for them masculine, but. Women's bodies are so delicate in the way they change and shift from day to day and every woman's body's different and their cycle is different.
[01:02:17] And I also think that there has to be a sensitivity with the way you teach energy practices, because not everybody is able to hold large amounts of PR without burning out mm-hmm . So a lot of these practices can create burnout in people over long periods of time. So for me, what I hope that I embody through the way I teach my teachers is not that there aren't strong practices.
[01:02:44] I teach them like pretty strong fiery practices it's that we kind of start slow and steady and we build and we build and we build, and that happens through consistency. And Sader so teaching. The importance of your own daily practice and building PR building energy in your body is something that I hope I teach my teachers and that they can then create a sort of, uh, a new way of doing this work that, uh, doesn't have to rely on big power practices that can work with the subtle energies as well as those big strong aspects.
[01:03:29] So the light collective in 2020 really went online, um, with everything that was happening in the world. I didn't wanna stop doing the work. So we now have an online yoga studio, which. Courses for students and prerecorded practices and live streams. And we just have a lot going on there. And then there's teacher trainings that we do where I hope that I can like spread this style of yoga, which is embodied, has a kind of feminine quality to it is inclusive and holistic and soulful in nature.
[01:04:08] And then I suppose there's another aspect which underpins all of this work that I guess I've spoken about, is this the feminine nature or the kind of T trick embodied nature? And that's another aspect, probably the third side of the work that I do, which at the light collective is about teaching women and teaching women, um, how to connect into their divine feminine and to activate erotic energy and juicy energy and their own inner power and vitality.
[01:04:41] all on their own and to step out of being victims of their own life and just kind of power themselves up through practice. So that's where we're at with the light collective. And it's really always growing and expanding. And this year is a, is a big work year, but hopefully next year I can have a bit of a, just a period of regional and lack me just being in what I've created.
[01:05:12] So it's like expansive year, this year of creation. And then next year just kind of enjoy the fruits of all of that. I hope and be in those practices, but I am, I am a creative individual, so there's something in me. I just have to be like handcuffed for a year and be told I'm not allowed to create anything new.
[01:05:35] Cause I've already got like ideas. more things I wanna.
[01:05:41] Host: Something beautiful about sitting into the seat of who you are and not having those shackles on . Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for being so open and sharing so much. I feel like we've, we've kind of gotten through quite a bit in, in the amount of time that we have had.
[01:05:56] That's good. Yeah. So thank you so
[01:05:58] Guest: much. Well, thank you so much for having me. It was such an honor to receive your message and to be able to take this time and space with you. It's it's really special.
[01:06:09] Host: Thank you. Yeah, you're very welcome. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the today dreamer podcast, all the information around our guests will be available through the show notes section on the website, and you'll also, there'll be many other kind of links on the website and goodies for you to explore.
[01:06:29] If you're open and feeling adventurous today, dreamer.com is where you can check all of that out. And yeah, just wanna say thank you again for tuning into this episode and. For tuning into the show. I hope that it's been insightful, inspiring, motivating. Um, and if nothing else may be a little bit entertaining, um, and it has given you an opportunity to reflect upon your own participation or process of, um, cultivating presence in your life, in service of your ever unfolding, blossoming of the emergent world story.
[01:07:06] So catch you in the next episode and thank you for being here with us. My friend.