A Meditative Sound Journey with Rohan Sacre (Part 1 & 2)
Join us in a meditative sound journey with Rohan Sacre. Go on a meditative journey into inner space and experience sound healing with the help of meditation music. Rohan shares with us about psychedelic ceremony spaces as well. Listen to Rohan as we have conversations about the power of sound, healing, and plant medicine ceremonies. He also introduces his debut album, Entheogenesis, with us.
Show Notes Links:
Learn more at:
www.shad0creature.bandcamp.com
Full Podcast Transcription:
A Meditative Sound Journey with Rohan Sacre (Part 1 & 2)
===
Rohan Sacre Part 1
===
Rohan Sacre Part 1
===
[00:00:00] Host: Welcome to the today dreamer podcast, my friend, I feel really blessed and there's a sincere space of gratitude that I wanted to share with you. Thank you for taking a moment to engage in the here and the now with the show, the today dreamer project, which includes this podcast and YouTube channel is here to help you cultivate your practice of presence.
[00:00:28] And there's a hope that, you know, that may help you more deeply and more fully contribute to the blossoming of the emergent world story as it continues to unfold and to par participate in that process. Uh, you know, whether that's by being of service in some way, or by making a contribution in some way, or just kind of adding your own unique genius into the mix.
[00:00:57] So this platform, and this whole project is here to help you develop a deeper sense of presence so that that state of being will filter into however, you know, however you move into that emergent space. Today's guest is Rohan SRA. I'll tell you a little bit about Roe before we get into the show. He's a musician that goes by the name, the artist name, shadow creature.
[00:01:23] He's a sacred space holder working with the plant medicine, AKA he's a loving father and a dear friend of mine. We actually met at a kindness community kitchen in the mountains, and our, we realized that our share values and, um, perspectives really ignited something true, um, in conversational space. And after having experienced the wonders of Rose's work.
[00:01:52] I wanted to share some of that through his new album, NIO Genesis on the show. So this is a collaboration and there's an open invitation, a gentle open one to embrace this journey that we're about to go on together. So not only see it as a podcast, but see it as almost like a guided meditative podcast where there's a chance to really feel into whatever emotions emerge in the present moment and whatever experiences might come to the fall and really just be with them, breathe into them and allow them to move through you and flourish.
[00:02:32] So here's my conversation with Roe. If you haven't had a chance yet, please head over to today. dreamer.com, check out some more episodes. Uh, feel free to get in touch with me with any feedback or. Just to say, hello, I'd love to hear from you and connect more deeply with you. And yeah, I hope you love it.
[00:02:51] And I hope you really get something meaningful out of this journey.
[00:02:55] Guest: One of the, you know, foundations of creativity or creation or being an artist, you know, and I guess we all are in that regard because we're constantly perceiving, um, you know, various, various things in various senses and dimensions and like, like any good piece of art hopefully is up for some kind of, you know, personal interpretation and.
[00:03:24] Inspiration. And I think this is like how I'm trying to live. My reality more and more these days is, is to view myself as a, as a creator and, uh, you know, creating, creating experiences where I can, that will hopefully, you know, give, give way to inspire something or move something in someone else. And it doesn't have to be, you know, um, defined or, or decided what that meaning is.
[00:03:50] That's I think that's the beauty of it is we can all celebrate drawing different, um, you know, different perception and different, different values out of, out of singular, you know, um, objects or experiences. It's it's, you know, it's beautiful. That's that's where, where things become infinite, really. So .
[00:04:10] Host: So was that a, was that an intention of yours when you were creating the album or when you were creating that artwork for the cover?
[00:04:16] Guest: Yeah, the, the cover artwork. So, so yeah, for the album, the album was more of a. Gift, I suppose that was bestowed upon me through various experiences. It wasn't so much something that I was setting out to do. So I guess how the music came through was, was a different, uh, experience, but to, to figure out the, the concept of the cover to try and represent this, you know, musical project and, and the music is a journey.
[00:04:43] It's there's no, um, There's really no consistency. As far as the musicology goes. Um, it's a riot and it's a journey through different soundscapes and kind of different genres and themes. Uh, so to try and kind of unify that under an image felt like it was gonna be hard, but then I just stopped thinking and then just like felt into kind of, you know, what the album represented to me.
[00:05:08] And, uh, like I was saying earlier, it was, it was, you know, the album is this concept or this, this expression of spiritual awakening. Uh, and, and as many aspects as you know, I, I could genuinely and authentically. Bring through. And, and so there's light, there's beauty, there's terror, there's darkness, there's shadow.
[00:05:28] It's, it's kind of a lot of the many aspects. I think that we all go through on that journey. So I guess polarity was, was this thing, this energy that was coming through, uh, from the music. So when, when looking at, you know, what I could represent, um, in, you know, trying to capture that in a cover, I wanted to go for polarity, but then something that was still vague, uh, and open to interpretation.
[00:05:54] Yeah, the image could look like a moon or it could look like the sun and it could look like dusk could look like Dawn. Uh, it looks like the, you know, indigenous flag or it doesn't. So it's, it's kind of, I, I just want it to feel more than anything it to, to hopefully, um, create a feeling in, in the person to identify with, with whatever aspect they do.
[00:06:19] So sometimes depending on the song I'm listening to it'll feel like a nice warm sunset. Um, and then other tracks, it feels, you know, like, like the breaking warning coming through after a really long horrendous night. So, you know, yeah. That's about as much, you know, I, I think in the rest was just, just feeling it, you know, just, I love, I love drawing an art, so I, I just, it's, it's not a process that I think much about.
[00:06:43] I just, I, I go for my aesthetics and colors and things that feel good, you know?
[00:06:48] Host: Definitely. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Mm-hmm I there's this, I guess there's this open invitation for everyone listening and, and even with us to, to be able to kind of sink into that space of, of feeling and, and allow the, you know, allow this kind of present moment to wash over us and allow the music that we are about to explore and, and this kind of journey into presence to do the same.
[00:07:16] Um, yeah, I'm wondering if, you know, whether, you know, you mentioned going through and listening back to some of the tracks and them having different things kind of arise within, within your being through that process. I'm wondering if you had done that on multiple occasions and whether or not different things have arisen from the same song, depending on where you were when you were listening.
[00:07:42] Guest: Yeah. That's, that's a, that's a great, um, Great question and thought to pause on, I think what I'm finding with this particular group attracts in this album is it is an evolution. And each time I listened, I mean, I've obviously listened to these tracks a lot, uh, in the production phase and postproduction, and, um, you know, not so much recently, cuz this has been a project that I've been working on for years and I'm only just kind of getting ready to release, you know, publicly.
[00:08:12] So I've had a lot of time with it, but yeah, it seems to reflect differently depending on where I'm at. And I, I suppose my original, the original, you know, incarnation of whatever energy was happening through me at the time of creating some of the tracks, because that was a process that I may have grown more since or healed.
[00:08:32] Um, it's some of them feel like kind of postcards from a, you know, an echo of myself or others still really hit hard. I mean, there's, there's, there's a particular song in there which was a really. It was a struggle to write. And it was at a time where I was really going through some, some darkness, um, and not very well, I guess, emotionally and mentally and not coping.
[00:08:56] And this was amongst the process of this artistic venture and, and life. And, um, it was, I, I guess at the time I was, I was quite suicidal and it was a, a big part of my psyche was constantly thinking about, you know, not being able to kind of keep my head above watering and, and cope and, and continue in this reality.
[00:09:21] Um, and it was pretty dense as, as, as such things are. Um, but I found the process of this song that emerged through that particular feeling, um, was, was just incredibly cathartic at the time. And essentially when I finished the song more or less, Um, I found that that feeling dramatically subsided and I, I really realized the power of this process of like being able to be present in, in an emotion or, or in an experience that we're perceiving of ourselves of the world around us and giving it some space.
[00:09:58] So in this case, it got a song, this, this feeling, this energy, um, to release it. And that's exactly what it did. So now, if I listen back to that track in particular, um, I can appreciate it more artistically and it it's, it can be a bit painful, but it's, it's more like, I, I, because I've overcome that aspect of, of that time, um, it feels more triumphant and less, less, you know, disparity in in, in the, in the music.
[00:10:30] So that's, that's, that's an extreme case of one of the songs. Um, but you know, many of the others, they, they, you know, they have different, um, I think different expressions that come through that want to come through at different points. And I listen to some of them, you know, uh, in meditations or ceremonies to kind of just see how they kind of how they're landing at different times.
[00:10:53] And they always seem to produce some kind of new, um, new space for me to explore, you know, within myself or just, um, this, this thing that's going on called life around us. So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm hoping that these tracks are kind of somewhat eternal to some degree or at least a couple of them. Um, they feel like they've got, um, the ability to at least, you know, stick around a while.
[00:11:18] So yeah.
[00:11:21] Host: Uh, would we, would we be able to, maybe I'm thinking as we're gonna go, going through this journey may be nice to kind of, uh, yeah, just celebrate all the different shades of the spectrum and, um, you know, open up to that experience and see what. You know, there's an open invitation to see what comes up now, maybe for you in this current moment and for everyone else listening and, and, you know, everyone that's here with us now.
[00:11:51] Uh, so do you like to maybe go into a meditation with that, that track you mentioned? I thought that might be kind of a nice idea cause I'm very curious myself now. and um, you know, maybe beginning on the deep end might be such a bad idea.
[00:12:07] Guest: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, alright,
[00:12:12] Host: so I'll, I'll invite everyone to, yeah.
[00:12:16] Maybe just to take a couple of nice deep inhalations,
[00:12:21] Audio: uh,
[00:12:23] Host: that's your own pace in your own time and allow them to kind of come into your being in a really gradual and effortless way. And at the peak of these breaths, you might like to just pause for a moment, just notice the subtleties of the space as it continues to unfold and, and change for releasing just as gracefully on the way out.
[00:13:00] And you might like to continue this process throughout this piece of music with your eyes closed and see what comes up for you. Realizing that yeah, you're in a safe space and, and yeah, everything is, is
[00:13:18] Audio: welcome here.
[00:19:13] Right.
[00:19:16] Guest: It's pretty intense way to open the album. yeah, yeah,
[00:19:24] Host: yeah.
[00:19:26] Audio: all crazy. Really?
[00:19:29] Guest: Yeah. Thanks. Yeah.
[00:19:35] Host: so where , where, where, where are we right now? Like trying to just kind of find some ground and wondering, yeah. Wondering how you're feeling in this moment and what's kind of alive for you amongst yeah.
[00:19:49] After that. Well,
[00:19:50] Guest: I, I, I think for me that that track really opens up this portal, um, to death and, you know, kind of what was behind it was, was me. I guess expressing that, that act of, of, you know, consciously taking my own life instead of doing it, doing it sonically. So that, that is like the journey through, through the tunnel, you know?
[00:20:16] Um, but through that, through that, um, that form of embrace of death. So when I hear it now, it's still, it's very unsettling and it reminds me of my, of my, you know, uh, sometimes my fears of the unknown of, you know, the, the other side of this, of this mortal coil. Um, so yeah, it kind of it's, I. I'm feeling electrified and quiet.
[00:20:51] reminded of, of, uh, you know, the fragility and the, the beauty of, of the here and now with that, you know, thankful, thankful to be here next to you doing this. Yeah. I'm,
[00:21:05] Host: I'm very appreciative of that as well. And, and, um, yeah, I could really feel into, um, that space with you on that journey. And also at the same time, it felt like, um, a sense of knowing in my own way, what that's like.
[00:21:28] And, and there seems to be a, uh, a space in the middle that where I could, you know, met that where I, where I met you in during that experience. And even now, uh, more deeply because of that. Mm. Yeah. It's an interesting thing to. Uh, be able to relate with another, from a space of familiarity, but then also not totally knowing exactly the kind of intricacies of their delicate experience, cuz it is quite nuanced and, and quite different and unique for all of us.
[00:22:04] Mm. But that common ground seems, uh, a beautiful place to sit and celebrate. Yeah.
[00:22:11] Guest: I think that's where the healing is really, you know, I think we, we all have our differences and our unique, uh, you know, um, expression and, and, and perceptions. But I, I feel like as, as humanity or as a humanity and community is, is to like, you know, we can celebrate each other's differences, but then hopefully find that, that common space, um, together that you know, where our story exists and, and our song and.
[00:22:40] I believe thematically. We all, you know, resonate with, with the themes of life and love and heartache and death and misery and suffering and beauty and, and all of it. And, and I think this is where music becomes such a beautiful language, um, of expression of, you know, such humanity and emotion. And, you know, because through a piece of music, we, we can identify, you know, some, some common aspect or a feeling, and that that's becomes a, a key or an entry point to, I think, more connection to each other and to opening up that space of communal gathering and healing.
[00:23:22] So, yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I'm really glad that yeah, there was, there was a point of connection within it, and I think this is what, you know, um, all music does and, you know, in all of my musical ventures, particularly going forward, I'm far more conscious of it. Uh, wanting to create a connection point, you know, within these frequencies that will hopefully, you know, be identifiable and relatable on some level and then hopefully new and groundbreaking in others and, and, you know, um, and in that sense, be a medicinal experience, you know, so it's always for a point, you know, not, not, not reckless ear bashing with crude frequencies.
[00:24:08] Host: yeah. I wonder if, uh, I thought that just came up for me as you were sharing just then was, I wonder if there's kind of music playing throughout our lives all the time and there's something around the atunement to be able to presence in and listen to that music. And then through the creation, it's almost like that is.
[00:24:31] Almost like a translation of what's already going on. Yeah. But with some sense of potency or, um, like a focused beam of energy and something that, uh, that kind of remains as an imprint, uh, to be shared or
[00:24:49] Guest: something mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like this, this particular album, um, was that experience, it was made touching and tapping into something that was already existing.
[00:25:04] And I was just trying to bring back a metaphoric representation, you know? Um, so most of these tracks came from, you know, dreams or, or a ceremony. Um, but, but, you know, from a space of expanded awareness and presence much like now, and with the mind being still, I was able to connect to. Other dimensions of, you know, sound and vibration and feeling.
[00:25:33] And I, so it's funny cuz with this album, like I, I don't really feel like I wrote it, you know, just like I was, I, I was lucky enough to get to witness and experience it. And then this album is a very clumsy attempt, you know, or it's a metaphor, you know, to try and try and capture and um, retranslate, you know like, like these, these things that preexist for sure.
[00:25:58] And, and whether they're aspects of me or you or all of us or something other, I think each song or each melody is different. And I, I do believe that we all have our own, you, we have multiple, you know, kind of songs, but I, I feel like we do have our own kind of melody. Um, and you know, we can, we can really.
[00:26:21] Push into that space. If we, if we want to and try and uncover what that might be, you know, what our, what our kind of instrument is and, and how that's going through, you know, um, add to this beautiful harmony of the symphony of creation and, you know, yes, it's, it's all a harmonization. So yeah.
[00:26:42] Host: Tell me a little bit about the dreams and the ceremonies from which this arose that you, that you kind of, um, Pointed to a little earlier, I'm I'm very curious, especially
[00:26:51] Guest: around the dream.
[00:26:52] Yeah. Well, I think one, one track, which is, which would be a nice follow up, I think a lot brighter, um, was I, I was going through a very intense, I guess, phase of, of doing some of these songs and a lot of plant medicine ceremony and a lot of healing. So I was, I was very, very much in this flow state of being, I guess, quite present to myself and, and my emotions and my expression.
[00:27:20] So I noticed that my dream states were just getting really vivid and, and quite, um, quite musing really I'd always come up with, there'd be some, some message through my dreams or, um, you know, something important that, that felt really relevant to the time. Um, and this particular, I remember I had this dream and, and, uh, I was just transported to like, you know, the, the peaks of the Himalayas and, and just slowly, this beautiful heavenly music was just like coming in on this gentle kind of crescendo and
[00:27:58] And, uh, one of my good friends, uh, um, was sitting on this, this little peak of the mountain with, with a, uh, harmonium and, and just this like radiant golden light coming from him. And just this song just filled the space. It was just like this really transcendent and quite, quite a trippy kind of dream. Cuz I was just transported to this like weird dimension with my friend, just like banging out this, this heavenly true.
[00:28:28] And it just felt so beautiful and um, innocent and pure, uh, just, just the whole scene and the feeling and the music. And I was lucky enough to kind of. Wake up within the dream and quickly get the melody down. So I think I spent like the next three hours awake, just frantically trying to get, and it's a really simple song, but like, I, I, I, I had to like, you know, get, get everything as, as, as close as I could, um, you know, to, to what I was kind of feeling.
[00:29:01] And that was, that was a thing like, this is probably the quickest song to write. Um, maybe, maybe the most kind of like polished, um, but it just flowed so easily cuz it, it had written itself, you know, like it came from this dream, it felt really powerful. It felt really magical. Um, so it's like, I, I don't feel like I wrote this, you know, like once again there's no like ownership of this, of this track and because I didn't really know where to place it because it was such a, an odd one that kind of just intersected in that, in that space of, of, you know, I guess astral, dreaming, um, I decided that I'd put it right in the center of the album.
[00:29:39] Like that's where it fit, because it was like a bridge between the worlds of this reality and the other stuff, you know, I guess the more shadowy and darker aspects of the album. So it kind of, it, it, I think it, it, it's, it's a beautiful bridge between the beginning of the album, which opens up a little more kind of gentle and light and starts walking you down the line into the realms of the dark night of the soul, which is the back half of the album.
[00:30:02] So, so I've called it's it's it's, it's got a, I'd have a name for it. So I'm like, well, it's, it's like an intermission, it's a bit of a kind of, you know, breather, breather track. So I've called it the dimensional mission. The intermission of the inter dimensional. So yeah, I'd love to share this cuz it's a really, yeah.
[00:30:24] It's one of my happy places. So.
[00:33:44] Audio: Made me laugh.
[00:33:46] Guest: Just rehearing that and reflecting on the dream. Cause I forgot to mention that a key component was my friend was not just playing the harmonium. He was beatboxing and, uh, that's that's was my first attempt in that track to do like, you know, some kind of vocalizations and no percussion was all mouth, you know, mouth made percuss.
[00:34:07] So having a little laugh, remembering that, but, but it, it reminds me of like for my, for my work generally it's rhythms really important. Um, so I I'm a percussionist and I've been a drama in my most of my life. Um, and I've always found that that connection to rhythm to has been essential for. I guess induction of trance like states or channeling, or just connecting to yourself, like in a really deep way and letting the mind go.
[00:34:41] I think the beauty of rhythm, um, particularly if it's non melodic and it's just, you know, simple, simple beat work, uh, for people that, that may be listening that might be, you know, wanting to get in touch with aspects of themself, just rhythm is a really great way to start. It's, it's, it's an easy thing to just slip out of the mind and just let the body do its thing and find its own pace and, you know, flow.
[00:35:06] Um, and without the distraction of, you know, notes to remember or to play. And it's, it's a really beautiful entry point, I think to our own person. Song in musicology. So a lot of the work I do these days, particularly, uh, you know, in ceremony with people, rhythms a really important part of, you know, playing live instrumentation and just being able to flow in that, in that, you know, um, in that beautiful space.
[00:35:37] Yeah.
[00:35:39] Host: yeah. can you tell me a little bit more about, uh, you know, the rhythm of your ceremonies, if you want to, if, if I wanna frame it that way and, and kind of, um, yeah, like what comes up for you when I, when I just throw that out there?
[00:35:53] Guest: Um, I think for me, like I rhythm of the ceremonies more and more as, as I, I guess, mature and grow in sharing spaces with people and, you know, co-creating.
[00:36:06] Um, the music is obviously such a strong part of the journeying as is silence when we, when we have that. But, um, I'm really trying my best these days to have, um, as much expression around me as I possibly can. So if I'm feeling inspired to play, um, in a live sense, I've got, I've got some tools for the trade.
[00:36:34] So, you know, I've got my dig dos and some flutes and a drum, and I'm just constantly acquiring kind of. Instruments, um, because I really love just kind of being able to jam, you know, um, in those spaces or just to let that creativity and that, um, inspiration kind of just come through me and it obviously takes a little bit of familiarity with your instruments to be able to flow really well.
[00:37:00] Um, but I don't often practice or play any of my instruments these days, you know, before ceremony. I, I hope to kind of just find a rhythm that'll come through or a song much, much like this album, just the same kind of process, just, just sitting and waiting. And, and if, you know, if it's, if it's going to be a valuable part of the ceremony, I, I get a pretty strong impression and then I'll just kind of step into that, that space and, and, and into the performance aspect.
[00:37:33] And, um, I, I try and resist as much as I can because I'm, I'm. Really big on not interjecting too much into people's experience. And I don't want to, you know, become too much of a space. So it's more resisting the urge and the compulsion to act until I really feel like I have to, and I get that message that it's appropriate.
[00:37:58] And then, and then I find that if I can do that, and I'm just in a flow state of expressing a rhythm or a melody or whatever on whichever instrument or even with my voice potentially, um, it, it, it tends to be a, um, a part of the space and a part of people's experience that, you know, um, seems to come across and, and, and land quite, um, powerfully and be quite helpful.
[00:38:24] Um, you know, often you'll see people's reactions, um, It can be anything from crying to singing along harmoniously, to purging and really moving some, um, some stuck energy. So I guess, like that's more in the realms of shamanic music, I suppose. Um, or the shamanic realms of using sound medicinally very intentionally, as opposed to just playing and performing pretty songs.
[00:38:56] Um, but yeah, that space, I can only really access when I'm really, um, my intention is to become an open space and channel for, you know, music like that to come. So it's less preconceived or contrived and more just flow state kind of stuff. Um, yeah. Which, which is, you know, lots of fun really. It's, it's, it's beautiful.
[00:39:21] Can be a little, you know, it's a vulnerable space to be in. She like, you know, you have an instrument in your lap or your hands or your mouth, and you're like, have no idea what's about to come through. And he is like, all right. You know, um, what's the kind of the
[00:39:34] Host: space we're in right now.
[00:39:35] Guest: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:39:37] Host: And I'm kind of seeing what you're kind of sharing around the ceremony as being like an analogy for life and the instruments as being parts of ourselves and having those developed in certain, you know, with a certain amount of practice allows us to then reach for them at times when we intuitively feel like they're in need.
[00:40:05] And, and maybe not before that time, There's just almost a sense of really checking in and saying, okay, this is the part of me that needs to come forth in this moment. And I'm gonna honor that by moving with that river and then transitioning and allowing that flow to take place within us. Yeah. Is, is kind of, what's coming through me in this moment is what
[00:40:30] Guest: you are sharing.
[00:40:31] I
[00:40:31] Host: love that. Yeah. And I guess the ceremonies for you seem like in itself, uh, one, one aspect of that practice that, and I'm wondering now how you may bridge that into your life and, and, and, and if you see the bridge or if you've explored the bridge and, and, and, and how, um, yeah, how that may have that process may have informed
[00:40:52] Guest: the way that you.
[00:40:55] Yeah, well, I guess that's the work really? Uh, and that's, that's a part of the integration end of any discipline or, or practice of, you know, spirituality or mindfulness and just being present. Um, you know, we can have these incredible experiences. Um, so what, you know, the, the, if so, so what kind of question?
[00:41:15] I, I constantly have to remind myself, um, because it's a struggle for me as well, uh, in, in, in the, the busyness of, of this time and space. Um, so yeah, it's also a work in progress. Like I'm sure it is for a lot of people. Um, but I guess the fact that I have more points of reference, the more that I, you know, have those experiences, the more I have to kind of lean on as a foundation to remember, it's all about remembering.
[00:41:44] So then when. I'm in my everyday kind of scenario. Hopefully I give myself the opportunity to remember that, Hey, maybe there's another way to respond to this or to, you know, feel or say or not say, um, it's, it's just kind of giving me more of that kind of present awareness. Um, and I think it alters probably may, maybe in aspects of my behaviors.
[00:42:08] Um, but maybe not so much. It just helps me, I think, to align more with my truest form self. And I think that's the space that I really want to be in as much as I possibly can. That's not, not kind of overrun, um, by other things, things that aren't myself, you know, the stress of the day or fatigue or, uh, pressures of everything that's going on.
[00:42:36] Um, so yeah, I, I, I think it is it's, it's, it's always a work in progress, but. I guess I'm blessed and fortunate to have this reference point of these amazing experiences where I get to really be myself fully and embody that. So I'm kind of, it's like, I'm the instrument, I'm learning how to play myself. So I guess, you know, the more experience I get, the better I'm gonna be that, uh, blowing my own trumpet, you know, yeah.
[00:43:02] Or playing the fiddle, but yeah. yeah.
[00:43:05] Host: Yeah.
[00:43:05] Guest: I feel like I'm still a, you know, like a entry level musician when it comes to myself and my own personal mastery though. So, you know,
[00:43:14] Host: yeah, I can definitely relate to that seems like it. Yeah. It's an, it's a healthy space to be in this, you know, this, this idea of, um, plenty of room to grow, plenty of room to change, plenty of room to, to help, uh, to serve, sorry.
[00:43:34] And to, um, Contribute that song to explore that song, whatever that may be, and to get more proficient at, at that instrument and all the instruments of our being. Yeah.
[00:43:48] Guest: And I think also the grace, like, uh, adding to that is that we, you know, nothing's permanent and this is an evolution, this whole experience, you know, we're growing, we're changing all the time.
[00:44:02] Uh, and it's, there's something refreshing and graceful within knowing that and understanding that we constantly have the ability to change and to transform and to reinvent ourselves and the world around us. So we don't have to, we don't have to sit in anything for too long if it's not really serving us or any anyone else.
[00:44:23] And I think that's another thing that I, you know, uh, there's plenty of things. To look at and, and despair and, and, and feel really negative about, but it's once again, just perception, you know, we, we can always look forward and, um, so it's like, yeah, I can always do better. I know that like, there's a billion things I could be doing better, but it's like, well, I care.
[00:44:45] That's, that's, that's what keeps me kind of motivated is that the optimism of knowing that the change is possible and, and also just taking the pressure off, like in, in our own time when we're ready, um, like you were saying a bit earlier with, you know, those things will emerge when they're relevant. I, I guess, um,
[00:45:05] Host: it's interesting this dance pressure, cause I feel like too much pressure off probably isn't isn't really.
[00:45:12] Doesn't seem like the, the right, uh, ratio of ingredients in, in, in the, in the recipe. But I feel like too much on is also quite a detrimental thing. So we're always kind of playing this game of balance aren't we? Yeah. And even within the sensing of, you know, which instrument to pick up or there there's, there's a delicate balance in everything.
[00:45:33] And just the whole idea of that, it's it, it remind the reminder of that itself feels like it can take a little bit of pressure off in the, in the more difficult ends of the spectrum or, um, knowing that, you know, if there's a little bit too much salt in that, in that mixture, there, there might be some way to counter balance it with a bit of sweetness sweetness.
[00:45:56] Guest: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's it, we've just gotta it's life is challenging and, you know, uh, we don't need to make it harder on ourselves than it likely already is. Yeah. I really think like, it's, that's my default. It's like going to the ease kind of end of the spectrum because it's, it's a tough gig cuz it's, it's, it's a crazy reality that we've signed up for and that we are living in and that we are, you know, we're doing together.
[00:46:21] So I, I think like it's just important to be really gentle and, you know, be in our own corner, just be like, Hey, you know, like tomorrow's a new day, you know? Um, but yeah, like once again, if so, so, so we've gotta, still, there has to be an action and a manifestation of, you know, of our, of these flighty thoughts or these, these beautiful experiences.
[00:46:44] Otherwise they are meaningless. And I think this is it is that balance of. Meaning becomes something when it's, you know, kind of means something and it can only mean something when it's a something, you know, so, um, but yeah, it's that play, um, and a dance and I often, you know, trip myself up and fall over a lot.
[00:47:06] and that's also kind of funny as well. It's just, you know, I try and really look at this experience as, uh, as joyfully as possible these days and just appreciate it for the, for the gift, um, that it is, and, you know, hard to do when you're having a really tough day, but I think, you know, overall, um, yeah, we just gotta be like really, really gentle and self caring.
[00:47:31] Um, that's the only way for our, um, I think gifts to really emerge cuz a lot of those things are shy within us. They've been really, um, Just allowed to exist, you know, whether that's from our families or friends or society, or just our own, our own, you know, expectation of ourselves. Um, so I guess if we're, if we're trying to find new territory within ourselves, then that has to be kind of gentle and timid and, you know, to be able to meet these, these vulnerable spaces where I believe the true gifts are for all of us, that's where our song is in that vulnerability and in that raw truth, you know, in that authenticity.
[00:48:12] So all the pretenses have to dissolve. Um, but yeah, for that to kind of have space, we have to be, we have to be yeah. Gentle and delicate and steady. So
[00:48:25] Host: yeah, definitely. It, it reminds me of this kind of attitude of meditation, where there's an invitation to be gentle with yourself throughout your practice, just to kind of return to that gentleness and, and kind of breathe into that space of.
[00:48:40] Taking care of oneself through the actual process that's unfolding. And, you know, I even noticed myself going to interesting spaces when we're listening to, uh, the first track, especially in terms of just watching where my mind was going and returning back into the song itself and into that river river of flow and just kind of being gentle with the fact that I'd gone there and, and it's kind of, okay, wherever we go there, there seems to be this back and forth kind of, um, like a cleansing process that takes place in life and a deepening that also takes place through those difficult moments and a breathing into, in a form is it seems to be a form of, um, gentleness.
[00:49:25] Now that I think about it, just the breath itself, just taking a deep inhalation in is kind of a nice little way of. Taking care of yourself as you kind of move into something rather than running away from it or, um, you know, covering it up or trying to kind of
[00:49:43] Guest: tighten. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz that's just control.
[00:49:46] It's just ego, you know, I think like, like we're, we're better to just embrace how we are as we are there and then, um, in its entirety, because that's at least authentic and real, you know, cause anything else is just ego control projection and you know, fucking bullshit really. So, um, and that's not helpful, like none of it's helpful.
[00:50:09] So, you know, even with me meditation, same with me, I'm just constantly my head's swimming and it's like, well, you know, that's just, that's normal and that's fine. And I'm not gonna sit here and. Judge myself about that. Like otherwise I'm pretending to be something I'm currently not, and I'm currently finding it hard to stay focused, you know?
[00:50:26] Like, um, yeah. And like, I, my priority is just authenticity as much as possible. Um, as I grow, you know, the, the more connection I have with myself and people around me, I just, it it's, it feels like such important, um, work to, to just come together and show up as, uh, truthfully and authentically as we can.
[00:50:49] And that includes, I guess, all of the funk and, um, yeah, the good, the bad, the ugly and meditation can, can be like one of those amazing trigger points for people where they feel like they're failing at it, you know, like, oh, I can't even do that. Right. It's like, there's no right. Like, you're do it. You're fine.
[00:51:08] Like, you're doing it, you're doing it. Like, yeah. The way you're doing, it's fine.
[00:51:11] Host: Like a lot of people feel like that with life. I feel like that's in times with life, this idea of. Am I doing this right? Is this enough? You know, I was exploring that today on the walk through the forest was like, and what's actually enough.
[00:51:24] And, and maybe I'm, I'm already here and it's like, yeah, I am already here. And, and this is enough and, and this is kind of just right as it is for this moment. And the tension comes around trying to make it otherwise, you know, or feeling like we need to.
[00:51:41] Guest: Yeah. Well, I think this is, this is a real issue for lots of us that are privileged to exist in the Western model.
[00:51:48] But the curse of that is this like authoritative, um, Program or, or, you know, um, parasite that we have embeddedness that it's like, we're constantly looking or seeking permission or we're rebelling. Like we're the opposite. We're gonna rebel against something, but it's like, there's always the other or the something.
[00:52:08] And, and I, I feel like it's a real struggle for us to, um, really take stock in ourselves and to, you know, really seat in our own sovereignty and understand that we are our own authority and that's kind of like it, like, we, we are accountable to ourselves first and foremost. And so many of us are not living in that frequency or that energy, you know, might be under the shadow of our parents or our partners or our work, just our trauma, you know?
[00:52:38] Um, and, and I think that's, that's really sad and it's really holding back our, um, our evolution, you know, human humanities evolution together. Um, The way that we relate to our environment to nature, to indigenous, to each other, like it's, it's, it's one of the, I think the primary kind of, um, drivers behind our sickness is this authority issue that we've got.
[00:53:06] We're really not, we're not believing in ourselves or, or, you know, backing ourselves enough. Um, and it's, yeah, it's, it's kind of horrible, you know, like, cuz who are you living for then? You know, what are you doing? Like, so, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's an interesting thing. I think that we all, we all kind of wrestle with at times and, um, yeah.
[00:53:34] Who's to say who's to say
[00:53:42] Host: okay. So
[00:53:48] we're gonna go go a little bit deeper together now and. And do a little bit of, yeah. ING into whatever arises together and Rohan's gonna do the same just with an instrument and it's gonna share kind of yeah. Whatever comes up for him on, on that instrument and what you're gonna do exactly what we were doing earlier, or there's an invitation to anyways, in terms of just coming into this moment and breathing deeply into the space that's present for us.
[00:54:32] Yeah. So feel free to just close your eyes now. And again, start to kind of allow your breathing to just become a little bit.
[00:54:49] Little bit slower, but maybe in a natural way, need to force anything or make, or make anything happen or, yeah, just allow for whatever's here in this moment to be, as it is as naturally. And as if, at least as possible, you might like to
[00:55:18] just notice your inhalations.
[00:55:26] I think to yourself, I am breathing in
[00:55:36] and just notice how it feels to allow your breath to effortlessly, almost drop. Or fall on its own
[00:56:06] to notice if anything's coming up for you in your body,
[00:56:17] you might feel
[00:56:21] some pain or
[00:56:25] even a sense of deep relaxation, some invitation to drop into. Yeah, the sensations of our bodies.
[00:56:47] We continue to be with
[00:56:54] what is most alive for us
[00:57:02] Audio: here and.
[01:05:59] And
[01:06:00] Host: wherever you.
[01:06:04] On your next exhalation
[01:06:12] may be nice to carry through the energy of whatever it is you're feeling as you open your eyes. Thank you so much for tuning into part one of this beautiful journey into a deeper state of presence with Rohan SRA, as he shares his album en angiogenesis with us. If you'd like to go a little bit deeper and you are ready for more, there'll be part two that's out next week.
[01:06:46] And I'm so looking forward to, yeah. Sharing that with you and hearing feedback, if you have any, which you can submit to me at today, dreamer.com. And also if you are looking to go deeper on this journey of self exploration in the hopes of meaningfully contributing or participating in the emergent world story, and it's blossoming, if you're looking to deepen your participation and self inquiry, feel free to get in touch.
[01:07:18] As I'm taking on a small handful participants to work one on one with me, and you can find out more by emailing me Michael today, dreamer.com. But yeah, stay tuned to the next episode. And thank you again for sharing space with us in the here and the now.
===
Rohan Sacre Part 2
===
[00:00:00] Audio: So this
[00:00:03] Guest: song, uh, is, is one of the more recent ones I've worked on, um, which came a while after, after the
[00:00:11] Audio: album. Um, and
[00:00:16] Guest: yeah, it was, I think a couple of years now, just before lockdowns, really, um, there was this beautiful soul that many of us had the. Absolute privilege of being in his presence. He, he was just such a, such a vibrance and, and just such a heart, his biggest heart, um, and his name, his name is Doug.
[00:00:42] And he really stood in as this kind of, I guess, archetype for, for so many of us on, on, you know, many different ways, whatever. I think we needed. He, he was. Incredible chameleon, energetically. Well, he wasn't just who he was authentically, but he was such a big, a big space that he could fill, you know, so many gaps in, in, in, in, in us.
[00:01:07] And, um, you know, he was a real father figure and mentor to a lot of, um, our little group and a real, um, supporter. Like he, he had a, I think a real gift of vision of. Life and, and consciousness and community. And it was really important for him that he let us know how important we were to him. And how important all about individual efforts and journeys are through a greater, you know, larger piece of the puzzle of, of living, I guess, here on this earth, um, Yeah, just like, like no other.
[00:01:52] And I think came at such a crucial time for, for many of us. And we were really struggling and, you know, part of my journey that I was sharing at the beginning of the podcast with my mental health and, and, you know, suicidality, um, Doug was a very big part of, um, helping to heal that as well. And it wasn't so much in words.
[00:02:13] Or supportive was in a, in an experience that was just him being fully present for me much like this. And I really was able to shed and go into that, you know, that space and that, that, um, that fear and that terror and the loneliness of, of that feeling, I guess the core of the, um, yeah, of, of why I was really feeling like that and how to sync with myself and, and he.
[00:02:41] Held me in silence and I've never experienced such palpable and strong healing presence from another, like just space holding. Um, so yeah, I, he, he was instrumental in my, I think recovery and healing and growth from, from those pretty dense kind of, um, frequencies. So when he passed it, it, it. Like having your heart broken and smashed into a million pieces.
[00:03:11] Uh, it, it hurt a lot, um, really, really sudden, really unexpected passing, um, that, you know, I think we all feel in retrospect, It was just it's perfect timing for him and his, you know, his journey, uh, in his, in his kind of, uh, you know, mission. He, he, he, uh, I think it was, was as it was meant to be, but I, I suppose, because he was very present in our lives at, at, at, at that moment of his transition as well at really felt that space and that whole open up, um, in, in, in our fields.
[00:03:53] So. You know, it took, took a little bit of, um, yeah, a bit of time to, we didn't want to grieve obviously, but also wanting to celebrate his energy. And I guess what he was here instilling in us and I guess to, to try and continue that work, you know, within each other and ourselves, um, and to honor him that way and to love him that way.
[00:04:16] So, and obviously a part of my expression is, is music. And, you know, cause it's, it's a. Or it's a medium that, you know, can be somewhat immortalized. So I, I mean, I didn't think too deeply about it, but I was just playing on the piano and just this, this song just started coming through. And then I quickly knew what, who the song was about or for, and it was, it was the honor, this journey, this, this life of Dougs and also his journey.
[00:04:50] You know, into the all expanded awareness of the next, the next phase. So we held a little gathering here, um, just post his, his funeral, um, to honor him, I guess, and to, to power respects and to remember him, um, a small pocket of us. So this song I, I, at that time had kind of only just come out and, um,
[00:05:18] Audio: performed.
[00:05:19] Um,
[00:05:20] Guest: kind of live for everyone. And that felt really, uh, beautiful to be able to do, um, in that, in that kind of moment. So then I kind of got to producing this song after that, realizing that that song for me, um, is a beautiful way to celebrate and to remember him. And I think like, just also once again, it just, it's all ties into self as well.
[00:05:46] Like, you know, Doug's death and passing it, brought that reflection back to me. And it's, it's, it's something that I, you know, now wrapped up in my own thoughts and death. Doug is within that as well, you know, thoughts with him. So it's, I feel like this song to me, once again, represents a dying to some degree, but maybe in a more hopeful, optimistic sense than the, the first, uh, song that I shared with you.
[00:06:11] That was maybe the darker version of, of death. This, this feels. I think this expresses a way or a feeling of how I would like death to be. So this song is called, um, a.
[00:15:07] Audio: Man. Thanks for letting me pull
[00:15:10] Guest: with. To play that and share that it feels really nice to be able to yeah. Give him a bit of space in this
[00:15:19] Audio: yeah,
[00:15:21] Host: it feels like there's, I just feel my whole body's quite alive right now and mm-hmm, tingly and yeah, I feel these like almost like pins and needles and electricity running all the way out my spine and throughout my arms.
[00:15:36] And it's just so interesting how much. Yeah. Life, how life giving death can be.
[00:15:48] Yeah. And I just, yeah, I wanted to thank you and, and just kind of honor Doug in this moment as well.
[00:16:00] Yeah. Just what you shared around your experience with him. And it, it sounds quite inspirational to. Be able to have such an effect on the people around us to, you know, for, for that song, for that piece of music to be a result of someone's life and death. It it's quite a beautiful thing.
[00:16:22] Guest: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.
[00:16:25] Thank you. It's I kind of, I think after that, I'm reminding myself officially, um, I, from that I decided that it would be a really great idea to write a. Uh, inspired by, you know, all of my friends and people that I care about and making the tracks just be named after them. So that that'll probably be an album to come mm-hmm in, in years, but I kind of thought that would be a really beautiful way to celebrate, you know, the beautiful connections.
[00:16:51] And once again, like somewhat IOR, so long as hard drives and internet exists, uh, you know, these, these, um, these amazing things. And yeah, I also like that's, you are a huge part of. My, my circle in connection in community as well. So I'm really grateful for, for your beautiful gift and, and, and sharing in the world and, and how that allows so much to emerge through your medium, you know, and others can share themselves.
[00:17:23] It's, it's, it's the same, you know, it's the same frequency and the same platform here of, you know, um, platforming and inspiring and. Connecting. So I'm really grateful, I guess, to be given this, um, opportunity to be like courageous and share this part of what I do my music and, and feel, um, personally, feel a bit more like, uh, what's the word?
[00:17:48] Um, Happy and, and more musical about myself instead of, you know, that all the other ventures and projects that I'm doing, it's really nice to pause and reflect and to, you know, have this amazing, uh, experience with you to, to reshare this to myself as well. Um, and I, I've been really fortunate to have a, a similar opportunity recently with, uh, a friend who, um, is about to relate to documentary and.
[00:18:16] We did a very similar kind of like flowy concept. And he was like, look, I got like seven episodes, you know, hours and hours of footage. I've got like, no music. He's like, you know, can you, can you help out? I'm like, whoa. Yeah, that sounds terrifying. But you know, okay. And then I'm like, how am I gonna do that?
[00:18:37] That's you know, like, You know, schoolwork and stuff is something I kind of like really into, but it takes a lot of time. So I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be deliver, you know, able to deliver anything. That's gonna be good enough. And then, then we had chat and just decided to, um, basically spend a couple of days together, uh, recording live work, and just complete flow state.
[00:19:00] And he had this amazing instrument. Uh, beautiful synthesizer. That was like a one stop shop. And it was a very different style. Cause you know, my production, I'm recording, you know, field recordings and live instruments and using, you know, samples and stuff. And it's just a, you know, mix of a lot of different things which becomes time consuming.
[00:19:21] So the idea of doing a live kind of, you know, Recording session was like, okay. I kind of took the pressure off. And, uh, and it was really great. So we just spent a couple of days together with this amazing instrument. And, um, I really got an opportunity to, um, really sit in the present, you know, the presence of the flow state with my music and yeah, I think about seven hours of music we've got gotta, yeah, there's a lot there to get through, but, um, Yeah, that that was a really inspirational kind of, um, experience and opportunity much like this to kind of help me to, you know, um, maybe carve out more time for my musical project than, um, cuz it's it's it's yeah, it's really beautiful.
[00:20:10] I guess, through, um, feel it being appreciated, I guess, for how it was intended and that's I guess, as an. We all kind of struggle with whatever form we're doing of, oh, how's it gonna be received? How's it got value? And I usually tell people, you know, well, if it's, you know, enough to help one person out or inspire them or, you know, kind of that's worth doing it's worth kind of putting out.
[00:20:36] So I kind of, um, yeah, appreciate this, this opportunity to. Takes on my own advice in that regard. And, and, uh, yeah, I think we could
[00:20:45] Host: all use a bit more of that. And I just kind of having a chat with Jay a bit earlier around this, and we've touched on this point in our conversations a few times and it, you know, it's, it's quite inspirational for me as well, just to be kind of reminded of, um, the importance of doing that.
[00:21:01] And, and I'm, I've got a wondering, like, I'm sure what you think about this, but a wondering around. Why do you think it might be so hard to, to let such beauty out and like where the, yeah. And why are we so we're so we can feel to be, I know from personal experience. So, so glitchy in that area and you know why it does, um, take a bit of back and forth before we can open up and, and.
[00:21:31] And share that because that, that beauty, once it touches other people like that, that experience just happened right now. And it's still, still kind of going on inside of me. And I'm sure inside of many other people that are kind of witnessing this space and, you know, I'm, I've got a wondering around kind of, cause it's definitely, definitely, definitely something that, um, is quite contagious and, and, and helps kind of.
[00:21:56] The blossoming and that's the whole thing around the podcast is kind of an attempt to help, um, allow for that blossoming to take place or, or to inspire it or to, you know, breathe, breathe some sense of life into it. And I'm, and I'm wondering if you have maybe an inkling or an insight into yeah. The, the difficulty of that, that opening.
[00:22:20] Guest: Yeah. Well look, I, I think I experienced it and I see. Time and time again, with, with, I guess, people that I'm really fortunate enough to, to share time and, you know, space with, um, that we have these horrible limiting self beliefs, generally, most of us. Um, and we, we, we have a lot of doubt and I think a lot of it is born from fear.
[00:22:49] I think fear is, is probably the undercurrent or the, the. That then by extension creates these issues because we, we then find it almost paralyzing through break a mold or to step outside of what's safe. You know, there's this like illusion of safety. I think that that, especially. In, in Australia, in the west, you know, we've got this kind of like tall poppy syndrome.
[00:23:14] We, we like, you know, it would be like humble and not, not like do anything too outrageous or crazy, just, you know, like stay in line and do the right thing. And it's all, it's all these kind of tropes of, of, you know, the right way to do things or the live or be. And I think a lot of that comes through colonization from religion and all these, these larger concepts.
[00:23:35] I think that impact the modern day person. In, in really subtle ways, but really strong ways in terms of how it chokes us off from actually feeling like, um, acceptable, you know, I mean, look, look, I mean, look, look at our policies with indigenous Australians or even like, you know, queer or women's rights and stuff like we're so behind there's no progression.
[00:24:00] It takes forever for any significant and real deep change to happen in this current society. So when you've got all of that stacked against you and you kind of like intrinsically know that it's gonna be a grind to do something different, I think this is where it gets hard for us to reinvent ourselves or to, to heal or to do something you're, you know, like to, because, because it's, it's, it's all this results based kind of society where it's like, oh, you know, everyth.
[00:24:28] Good or bad, like it's so binary our thinking, whereas it's just like, well, you know, being shit's okay as well. And this, this is I think, where we're not allowed to be in our communities or our families or in our relationships or in our friendships or at our jobs. We're not allowed to like be shit or have a bad day or a bad moment.
[00:24:46] We can't make mistakes, you know, if everything has to be polished and, you know, to ready or, or, or whatever. And I think that's, that's so crippling and dangerous. Um, it's this pack mentality kind of craziness. Um, so I think in this day and age to really be yourself, uh, which is obviously unique and individual, that's quite a courageous act in itself.
[00:25:13] And for most people I feel. Don't have the roadmap to doing that, or they don't even know who they are. And they're trying to discover that it becomes, uh, quite the mountain. So I think this is where we need each other and, and, and community or platforms like this to share and to express, um, to be, I guess, beacons of hope and inspiration and safe spaces for each other to explore.
[00:25:39] And to crash out, you know, like to make mistakes in this. Um, I think it's like, we've gotta get caught with like all of that. Um, so that, you know, people can start to feel safe in their vulnerability so they can start to really, you know, become who they, who they truly are. Um, so yeah, how, how to do this in the real world.
[00:26:02] It's, it's very difficult, you know, so I think like community is key here and.
[00:26:10] Then, I guess for people that have a gift or a strong desirable calling to face those fears and challenges and step into it, you know, like, like even this today is like, kinda like, oh, felt like so intimidating and like, oh God, what if it ruins things? It's horrible and shit. And it's like, well, you know what?
[00:26:26] Even if they did, that's not, it's not the point. Like, like, like I should be cool with failure. And like everyone just being like, whatever man, like didn't resonate. Because it's not about, you know, being, it's not about me being kind of satiated by other people. It's more about me just doing what my soul or what I know I need to do putting it out there and just trusting that there was a reason for it.
[00:26:48] And you know, maybe one other person will, you know, feel, feel something that's helpful and that's good enough. And then hopefully by extension, if they see someone's kind of been brave enough to step into their vulnerability or their tender. And those fears then that will hopefully also inspire a courage within them as well.
[00:27:08] Mm. Um, and this is why these podcast opportunities are, they're terrifying to me, I'm a very kind of private person in terms of like, what, what, what I kind of do and how I think, because I'm, I'm, you know, it can be interesting and, and, you know, maybe not exactly mainstream. So I tend to kind of like, you know, uh, keep myself.
[00:27:31] Somewhat underground. Um, but I coming forward or out of the closet, I guess, in, in, in an opportunity like this, I think it's, it's, it's beyond me. It's just important to do, because I care about people in humanity and where we're going enough to realize that yeah, we, we, we all need to who, who, who has the means to kind of step into themselves a bit more we should, and then we can, you know, hopefully be there to support others that are, you know, in a similar kind of situation.
[00:27:59] Long answer, but yeah, I think that's it. Yeah.
[00:28:02] Host: Well, I feel like you've definitely done that today with us and, and there's definitely, for me been a sense of, uh, like a, a realness or something, like just a sense of truth and a, a, a presence. And it just it's felt quite real and, and not really kind of trying to, you know, show something that isn't already kind of purely and authentically there and true.
[00:28:26] So. I just wanted to kind of share that with you and, and I think, yeah, that there's a real power in that there's a real power in your truth and in, and, and, and in stepping into that space with courage,
[00:28:38] Audio: um,
[00:28:39] Host: yeah, that I I've definitely gotta kind of take away from this mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's definitely something that is quite, um, time.
[00:28:48] It's timely kind of reminder.
[00:28:51] Guest: Yeah. I think we all need it. Hey, it's like, it, it, it's a feedback loop that is, is, you know, a positive one because you, you can't really start believing. So, and we do need a point of reference. I think, you know, you need something to bounce off to understand your location and in this, in this reality.
[00:29:08] So, um, I guess yeah, challenging ourselves and stepping up and stepping in where we can. Can really provide a great platform for that self reflection and, and to see how we're, how we're landing, you know, in, in the real space of, of, you know, everybody else. And, um, I think so long as, yeah, we, we're not afraid to make mistakes or at least if we do make them, we're not afraid to like, own that.
[00:29:31] Yeah. You know, and, and, and, and make a change.
[00:29:35] Host: It's interesting. Cause we're, we're continually, we're never the same person from moment to moment. Like we're not the same people that we were when we begun this discussion and that's going to continue to happen where we're constantly on this path of evolution.
[00:29:51] It's interesting cuz the film production company is actually called above the, your media sound, but there's this evolution that's kind of continually taking place in every moment. And kind of whole, like, even the idea of, you know, I, I struggle sometimes with putting things out there in terms of video or content.
[00:30:11] Cause I know even just the, the cringe cringy feeling I get, when I look back at kind of, you know, with a lighthearted smile as well, this kind of old, these older versions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of me, you know, and. Yeah. And, and just watching how that kind of, how that changes and develops is, is quite a beautiful thing, but it's also, um, the idea of being stuck in a moment of time.
[00:30:35] Doesn't feel too nice. Mm-hmm um, yeah, it's an, it's an interesting space.
[00:30:40] Guest: I, I think it can really hold us back if we're not like, if, if something's come through and we haven't kind of finished the process like this album. Yes. Prime example like this, this is why this is like, I started this in, I, I don't know what the first song.
[00:30:55] Maybe seven years ago, mm-hmm , you know, like, and this hasn't been officially launched cause I've been sitting on it and it's like, it's constipated me musically. Yes. And artistically and energetically I'm sure. Yeah. Absolutely. My friends like drew you just gotta let it go and move on. Like just move on and say I'm like, okay.
[00:31:10] You know, just like always making. You know, more of it and it's like, so this is really great. Cause this is a cathartic process that, that, you know, through, through you has now allowed me to just move on musically. Like I I'll never look back like this is time. I mean, you know, but it's like, it's, it's, it's nothing new for me.
[00:31:26] And it's something that, that needs to be kind of like birthed and, and, and released into its own thing. Whatever happens, you know, if anything, um, but just for my creative process, you know, having it store up in a, in a jar, in a cupboard, it's just kind of like, well, what was, what was the point? You know? So, yeah, so I think.
[00:31:42] Like you said with this, this, the nature of our own evolution and change, as long as we can, we can shut up that fear of like, oh, I don't want to be like immortalized as that version of myself. And we can be gracious enough to, you know, like understand that we're constantly, everyone's evolving, you know, like it's all, it's all good.
[00:32:01] And, and maybe the cringe is. Beautiful hallmark of the past, just to remind you of how far you've actually come. Cause if that, if that moment's making you like cringe out, then you're, you're obviously in a very different space and that's, you know, that's something to celebrate.
[00:32:16] Host: Um, and there's a gentleness that what we pointed to earlier that comes into the picture of just kind of cradling that, that part of you that might want, that might feel a bit worried or.
[00:32:26] That might feel and it's noticing and E cradling, I think together.
[00:32:31] Guest: And I think like, cause with both fathers, it, it helps. Like, I, I think having that relationship, you know, same, like we we've all got kids and, and that, that, I guess hopefully for, for people gives us this, uh, different perspective on the other or on, you know, And that we can, um, you know, love people in a different way and, and that's maybe less selfish, more unconditional love, and it's like, well, how would you, how would you, you know, talk to your own child about their successes and failures.
[00:33:08] And it'd be much, you'd hope, much the same energy of like, Hey, it's okay. Like I want you to make mistakes. Yeah. Learn and that's safe. And you know, so I think like, um, you know, we've just gotta do the same to our inner child. We've just gotta be. Of ourselves. Um, and, and that's really all the relationship is just, just, you know, like treating all the form of parts of ourselves and the wounded parts of ourselves, like the child that it likely is.
[00:33:35] Yeah.
[00:33:36] Host: You know, I mean, reading some interesting things around, um, Yeah, the inner critic and the inner child. Mm, okay. Yep. Yeah. And the self Subura . So it seems like we're kind of playing with those, those different kind of elements right now and, and what we, what we're discussing kind of, it seems quite relevant in this chat.
[00:33:58] Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you for, for having the courage and for showing up and for doing this, cuz yeah. Everything that we just. Yeah, and it feels really good for me. Does it feel good for you, Jay?
[00:34:14] Guest: It's been, that's been, yeah, it's been wonderful. Um, yeah, absolute honor. I, uh, it's been lots of fun as well.
[00:34:21] Yeah. Yeah, maybe, uh, some somewhere in the rainbow, we can, we can do another experimental.
[00:34:29] Host: Tell us how we can, um, kind of, uh, meet the new baby
[00:34:32] Guest: once it's birthed. Okay. Yeah. Great. So I'll be on, um, band camp. All my music is, is being consolidated to band camp. Um, under the artist name, shadow creature, I will provide a link shadow creature, um, in the description.
[00:34:49] Um, or that Michael can plug in the album is called angiogenesis and it will be being released on the seventh of the seventh, 2022, um, which at this time, or that time may already be out or not depending on the podcast release date, but yeah. Um, Get Michael to put a link in, um, and just, yeah, watch that space and more music will come in and out.
[00:35:12] I've got more projects that I'm working on. Hopefully more ceremonial music for meditations, um, in the future. But yeah, feel free to send me an email through the lines and, and gimme some feedback on, you know, the music, if you're enjoying it, or if it's throwing anything up, um, for you, I really appreciate.
[00:35:33] Time in listening to this and going on this little journey with us. It's yeah. Been really fun and, um, yeah. I hope, hope you're well out there.
[00:35:48] Audio: cool. Yeah.
[00:35:50] Host: Should we leave him with a track? Let's sleep on the track.
[00:35:52] Guest: Yeah. Cool. Let's do that. All right. Great. Well, let's on the way out. Stop with the truck that started the whole project.
[00:35:59] Actually there's, there's a little story. I think that, that comes in quite nicely with this. So this track, um,
[00:36:07] Audio: this
[00:36:07] Guest: was the first song that came through with this whole project. And it was really the first song that came to me in any significant way that wasn't like my former style of production, which was very contrived and, you know, like polished and this whole concept was like to record things.
[00:36:24] And not quantize and not have it. Perfect. So there's slips and mistakes through the whole thing, cause I want it to be authentically me and human at that time. So a lot of just once throughs it all the rest. But anyways, um, what really catalyzed this whole, I guess, awakening of, of music for me in this kind of expression was this one song.
[00:36:44] And it came from an experience, um, that I had with the plant medicine. One of the, the beautiful, um, native plants. Which one? Uh it's. Aha. Cordi right. Um, so the track name is Cordi and the song, um, yeah. Is, is, is there's a group of melodies that came through this experience that kind of funneled into this track.
[00:37:09] Um, but yeah, in that particular experience, I very amazing, um, gift and lesson that happened where at the time I was still really, um, experiencing, I guess, my own heartache and pain in, in really deep ways, it was really holding me back. And I knew that I had problems, you know, in, in, in my heart space, um, in, in way I was relating to everything, everybody, but myself mainly.
[00:37:36] So that was one of my intentions of that, of that, um, ceremony was to, you know, look at, look at what's going on there and why I have these issues and hopefully gain some insight into, you know, um, beginning the road to healing and this plant just, uh, I got taken to this, this realm or this dimension, and it was much like a giant commercial kitchen.
[00:38:06] I could just see this red glowing from my perspective. And I, and I looked down and, and my heart was like a little oven that was just emitting this radiant glow in this dark giant kitchen space. And then I was like, okay, this is interesting. Um, and then this shuffling kind of happened and this little, little cur almost Muppet looking like puppet chef looking, critic him out and.
[00:38:33] Was looking at me with a chef hat and the whole gear. And, and then I kind of, you know, realized that this was the plant, just, you know, having a bit of fun with, with this lesson and came up to me and I'm like, well, you know what, what's, what's in the oven. And then, um, what's cooking. Yeah. What's cooking and like, oh, you know, and this is all kind of like a, you know, intuitive mind style communication, but it was like pointing.
[00:38:57] It was like, you know, your heart. I'm like, oh, okay. Okay. It's cooking. Like, is that a good thing? Like, you know, something's going on. And then, and then I asked if, if you know, this, this plant could, could help. Um, so this little puppet walked up and like tried to open up the oven and it was like locked. So I was like shaking furiously, and then had two legs up on the oven is like really trying to pull, pull, pull, pull.
[00:39:24] And it was like, no, no, can't get in there. Can't get in there. It's all locked up. And I'm like, I'm like, that's what I'm here for. Like what you, you can't help. It was like, no, it's all locked up. You, you, you, you, you got, you know, you've got a guard there and, and I can't help you right now. Like this isn't the night for this.
[00:39:44] And then I said, okay, well what, how do I, how do I be prepared for next time? How do I open up this space? It was like, oh, okay. Great question. And then. And then it said, um, and this was all kind of telepathic, but also in some words, but it's like you to, to heal your heart, you need to be able to speak its language.
[00:40:08] I'm like, oh, like love. It's like, yeah, love obviously. Absolutely. That's that's that's that's it's but that is what your heart is, but it's language is, is joy.
[00:40:18] Audio: And I was like, oh,
[00:40:19] Guest: and at that time I was not experiencing really any kind of joy. Um,
[00:40:25] Audio: And,
[00:40:27] Guest: and then the word joy just flashed up in my eyes and like, you know, um, casino, style lights, you know, Vegas like joy, but then in front of it, there was a dash and then E end, which means within, you know, something that's.
[00:40:45] Kind of endogenous. So it was flashing and alternating between and joy and joy. And then, then the plant said, you need to cultivate the joy within that's the key to, to fixing this and to be more open, um, the joy within, and the joy within really is just practices that we can do, which, which are, you know, practices of presence.
[00:41:09] Um, but it's something that we generate from within. So for me, playing music. Like live instruments. That's me creating something from within that didn't exist before. And it brings me joy. So not listening to someone else's thing. I have to do it. So, you know, art painting, running, dancing, whatever singing, but whatever we are creating and, and, and is endogenous to us.
[00:41:32] Uh, and that was, that was a hell of a lesson. And I I've always carried that with me, cuz it was just so. Hilarious, but beautiful and just made so much sense. And I've really, um, taken that on board as an important staple, I guess, of, of just my practice and discipline to understand, at least for me that the generation of something from within myself and creating it, uh, is a part of my parts language that, you know, I need to, I need to keep expressing.
[00:41:59] So is that,
[00:42:00] Host: is that door a bit more open since that
[00:42:02] Guest: lesson? Probably. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The begged goods are well and truly out of the oven. So ,
[00:42:09] Host: I would like to taste some of those if that's alright.
[00:42:13] Audio: so,
[00:42:14] Guest: so yeah. Um, so here's the track, uh,
[00:42:21] Hope you
[00:42:22] Audio: enjoy.