Reconnecting to self-love with Paul Filipe
Reconnecting to self-love is a process we go through as we experience life. Experiences such as walking and connecting with nature help us in discovering the right way to love ourselves. In this new episode, Paul Filipe shares with us how to start with self-love. He shares with us his journey with darkness and walks along with the things he has done to reach a deeper sense of love.
Full Podcast Transcription:
Reconnecting to self-love with Paul Filipe
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[00:00:00] Host: Hey, welcome back to the today during the podcast where we cultivate the practice of presence together with one another through conversational space and hopefully soon through more communal spaces online. Um, this is a wonderful moment right here right now. And I'm so happy that you have arrived and that I've arrived here together, and that we're all here beyond time and space in this kind of wonderful moment.
[00:00:33] And I can't wait to share with you the insights from today's conversation before I do, if you haven't had the chance yet, it would be much appreciate. If you do enjoy the show, if you could leave a little review or if you could reach out and show your support in some way, let me know how you feel connect.
[00:00:51] Um, I would just say hello. I would really appreciate it. And, um, maybe even visit the website www.today, dream.com and check it out. So yeah, this is my chat with portfolio paint. I'll tell you a little bit about Paul before we dive into things. So Paul is a wizard of wonder and wisdom. He volunteers at the local kindness community, homeless, homeless kitchen, and kind of through this link is actually where I met Paul and his beautiful wife, Emma he's a father and husband, and he kind of has gone through the depths of.
[00:01:33] Darkness to come out into a shining space of a deep sense of love, and that's kind of what we're going to be dancing around and exploring today. And, um, yeah, he's really a close friend of mine that I feel blessed to have met and that I'm, you know, always learning from and really enjoying the interaction with, um, and the opening that takes place in Paul's presence is just, um, yeah, one that's definitely profound and meaningful in my life.
[00:02:05] So I'm hoping to share some of that with you as Paul opens up in this kind of, I'm sure. One of many conversations on the podcast, so yeah, please. Yeah. Give this one, um, you know, your vibrant attention and wholehearted presence as it definitely deserves it, especially with the kind of topics that, um, Paul shares in this conversation.
[00:02:30] So, um, let's get into it before we do just going to take a moment of pause with you and invite you into this space. As you know, just realize I've been talking quite quickly and wherever you are in your day, maybe you've been moving at a certain pace and there's been a residual effect on your body, mind and heart in the interactions or experiences.
[00:03:01] So let's take a pause and just see what it feels like to take one nice, slow conscious breath together. So this is now a gentle invitation to close your eyes.
[00:03:19] And if you haven't already feel free to begin to inhale as slow. As you've ever done in your whole life before slow as possible. You through the nose,
[00:03:43] gently noticing any subtleties of your experience.
[00:03:51] Whenever it is that you may reach the peak of your breath,
[00:03:58] Guest: pause for a moment,
[00:04:02] feeling to
[00:04:03] Host: that space for just this Christ fully
[00:04:10] Guest: allowing
[00:04:12] Host: your breath
[00:04:12] Guest: to release.
[00:04:43] You should chat with Paul.
[00:04:54] Host: So yeah, I think the first thing that comes to me through my heart and my mind to explore with you, Paul would be, I guess, the relationship of coming into a state of love with yourself. And I found that to be a really meaningful and fascinating part of your journey that I think sharing into the sphere at this time.
[00:05:16] Can be quite powerful and I'd love to kind of hear it again in this intimate setting. So I guess a place that feels right to begin with them, if you think of another one, feel free to throw it out there for me would be, um, yeah, like what comes up for you in your heart, in your mind when I say connecting to a space of love with yourself and yeah.
[00:05:43] How that kind of, how does that sit with you and what, what kind of, what flows from that space? Oh, the
[00:05:48] Guest: first thing I would probably think about is walking, walking was really painful medicine. Um, for me to find self-love because in that walking that was realizing that every step that I took was nothing but an expression of self-love because I wasn't walking for anyone else.
[00:06:10] Nice. Step I talk was walking towards someone or. Walking with someone that was walking with myself and it was about moving. Um, it was about losing that really stagnant energy, which had sort of had up until that point of like sitting on my ass, on the couch, staring at the TV, like watching a lot of news, wondering why I felt like shit wondering why things seemed negative.
[00:06:41] Um, but that's what I was fading myself. So then making that decision to get up off my bike and walk and found this really beautiful park near where I lived. So I was at walking in nature and yeah, that was, that was really the big journey into self-love and realizing the reflection of love, you know, the beauty I felt in staring at the trees and the plants and the insects and.
[00:07:12] Eventually realizing that all of those were a reflection of my own beauty and the love that I had for those was also a reflection of the love I had for myself. And that was, that was a really beautiful sort of realization to have in one of my books, know that either, either none of those things that I saw and loved were worthy of love or all of it was worthy of love, including me, it was sort of like this corner.
[00:07:44] I backed myself into emotionally and I was realizing, well, I love these plants and these trees and these insects and everything so much that I can't now say that they are not worthy of love. So it meant that I was just as worthy of that. Which was really a beautiful thing to realize. I think in that moment, it was truly realizing how much everything is a reflection of ourselves and of may and how we reflect each other and how we always love and have the presence of everything, whether it be an ant to rock a tree or us makes the world a more beautiful place than it would be if we weren't here.
[00:08:29] Host: Yeah. What comes up for me is relationships built between you and this other space, this other being and how that yeah. Like you, like you mentioning how that's a reflection of yourself. I'm thinking of like a relationship with a tree, for example, and this idea of how I keep thinking of this. It keeps coming up in different ways, but sometimes I feel like the things that make us seem crazy, I actually, the things that bring us in union with ourselves and like talking to yourself for an exam.
[00:09:02] You know, it might look crazy if you saw someone doing it, or if somebody, you walked across the park and you saw someone having a deep conversation with the tree, you think that's a little bit odd, but the idea of forming a relationship with the plant or an animal or yourself in that kind of a way where you're speaking out loud and developing that as you go.
[00:09:24] And it seems like you may have been doing this, um, with everything that you encountered on these walks, um, it seems like such a beautiful and nourishing thing to develop this relational space, this intimacy, um, in spaces that you may have either ignored or just, um, you know, not explored in the past. And I'm kind of curious, cause you, you, you talking in past tense and I'm hearing that this was kind of, it seems like quite a pivotal point on your journey.
[00:09:56] Also, I got this idea of tick, not hands walking meditation. Connecting with the ground with every step, with a sense of love and being in presence and synchronizing your breath with the flow of the walk that comes through as well. But I'm really curious to know what part of this, of your journey this coming and what led you to that space, because it's quite a beautiful opening that you've expressed.
[00:10:23] And I'm wondering how you got there and what the context was like with the
[00:10:27] Guest: walking. Um, I was actually going through this beautiful process of heartbreak, um, after breaking up with my partner at the time. And I think because of the, the journey's leading up to that, I'd actually come into more connection, more ownership, more feeling of my emotions.
[00:10:49] And I went through this heartbreak and it was really beautiful, like to be on my knees on the floor, like crying so hard that I could barely breathe. But it was my emotions and it wasn't, I guess a lot of emotions that I had before that and being younger, it was always felt like emotions in response to what someone had done to me.
[00:11:16] You know, whether it was through victim mentality or, you know, someone hurt me or this went wrong, or that happened where this was something I was going through. And it was a real sort of shifting mindset. And I'd spent, I spent a lot of time crying and maybe indulging in that beautiful feeling of heartbreak and crying and teas and the overwhelming beauty of being overwhelmed by that emotion.
[00:11:48] But I did get to a point where, you know, really close friend at the time he'd come around. And I'd sit there and cry a lot. And I just he'd come over one night and I said, I'm not doing this tonight. Like, this is enough. I need to walk. And we just got up and walked and it was also symbolic that the direction of walked in, um, along the bark path was walking in the opposite way to where my ex partner lived.
[00:12:19] So it was like the symbolic thing of, I needed to be walking away from her. I needed to be walking away from that energy, from that spice. And it just unfolded, like I walked on the spark path and it was about three kilometers or whatever. And then we just, the bark path deep down and we just went through this magical, like doorway into this really beautiful reserve, which is like 160 hectares or something.
[00:12:47] Um, also it happened. So there was this really magical, mysterious element to it because there was fog, there was mist, there was like these really light rain that was happening and it felt like I'd just stepped foot into a magical world. And these feelings I got from it were just amazing. And, and, and it was similar to what you were just saying before.
[00:13:15] I did start to talk to everything. I started to talk to the trees and tell him how beautiful I looked and, and I'd make a lot of physical contact, you know, I've walked past and I touch the ferns and I'd, you know, grabbed, touch the leaves on the trees and just really talk to them. And if I saw birds and I'd be talking to the birds, and I think I also did a lot of processing through talking aloud to myself and.
[00:13:44] Obviously some having conversations with my friend, you know, so there was interaction, but then sometimes I was just probably talking at him, like he just happened to be there, you know, while I was expressing these feelings and, and then building up, you know, this went on for, for a long period of time.
[00:14:05] Like after I went for that first walk, it'd become like habitual, um, every night, you know, and it started off at like five, 10 Ks and then 15 and then 20 Ks. And, you know, most nights in the end I was doing 25 30 Ks. I'd pull up home after work, walk inside, grab my backpack, some water, some snacks and off I'd go.
[00:14:31] And these relationships that I built with this park, because I've walked every square inch of this park and really got to know. Some of the trays and the areas and the energies. And there were times when I'd walked back into certain spots and I almost felt like a stand of trees would be like, oh, you're back.
[00:14:50] It's good to see you. And I really felt like the state funding relationship with the trays and the nature in that park because they like, well, people don't normally talk to us by way of sitting here by saying hi, but they just not listening to how we talk. And it was like this extremely rewarding relationship to, to go through so much of my own mental processing, emotional integration and everything by myself.
[00:15:21] But feeling like I had the support of like millions of law firms in this park and feeling like they were like wrapping their arms around me and encouraging me with everything. You know, there was a, there was this, actually there was this one particular tree. Um, or maybe she was more like a shrub. And every time, every time I walked past her and she was on the main way, I'd stop and I touch her and I talked to her and I felt like we built this really beautiful relationship.
[00:15:54] Um, she was just amazing, you know, and, and it was like the sensation of touch when I touch her. And I could feel that it wasn't just me getting that sensation of connection. You know, I could feel that it was her getting that sensation of connection as well. So it was, it was really beautiful. I used to talk to her a lot and tell her how beautiful she looked and yeah, it was, it was quite magical, you know, and, and that really opened me up to doing that and expressing that, you know, before that I probably would have been worried.
[00:16:29] What will people think if they saw me talking to a bird, what would people think? If they saw me talking to a tree, when now I don't care. Like, you know, I'm happy in public to walk, copy. If I say a bird for instance, and be like, Hey, Hey, go on. You know, you, you look beautiful. How's your diet go? And the same with the tree, you know?
[00:16:47] And I don't really mind if people look at me and think I'm a bit crazy. Well, when
[00:16:52] Host: you've added a richness to life and you feel more alive in the process, all that stuff becomes so much more insignificant, you know? And I feel like what you've expressed there is quite profound in the sense of the before and after and how, even if you're looking at it from the plant's perspective, like you mentioned so many people walk past me and no one says hello, but I'm always here.
[00:17:18] And it's a sense of, I it's funny even just to call it nature, but nature being always there. Yeah. And always there, ready to. Provide love and support in it's interesting way of communication, which is through the sound and through the sensation on your skin, the texture of a rock on your feet or the sound and the smell.
[00:17:44] Yeah. All of it beside the range of colors and the way the, the leaves blowing the wind and how it all kind of fits together. And it's perfect kind of way. And it's always there ready for a conversation. And it's what I've heard from you as well as a stepping into something, you made a decision with your friend in that place to go for that walk and do something different than wallow in your sorrows.
[00:18:09] Like you had done all those other occasions, you took the step, the trees weren't going to walk to you. Yeah. So it was, it's a coming together of it's like, I'm always here, but I, whenever you're ready, you, you know, I'm here for you. So there is a beauty, I mean, I had. Profan experience when I was in Costa Rica spending a number of weeks in the jungle.
[00:18:36] And before that point, I'd never realized that such such, such beauty existed within me, I guess, would be a way of putting it just that I could touch just by spending longer periods of time around it. I didn't realize. And it seems so obvious and everyone knows VAD is familiar with the idea that nature is part of us and that, you know, it's, it's so glorious to spend time there, but I found my oldest self and even still sometimes the sense of looking at it, like it's somewhere that I need to go visit, but it's just this idea of being around it and relating to it in all the aspects, even where wherever we are, even through the sky or, you know, I'm thinking of the clouds, the trees in your name.
[00:19:27] Whatever it might be, um, connecting to that on a deeper level, and then spending more time with nature to be able to connect deeper with ourselves seems quite a potent being quite a healing thing is what I'm hearing from you. Well,
[00:19:40] Guest: it's going home and I guess it's at constructing our modern society.
[00:19:46] That home is four walls and a comfortable couch and a warm room with an abundance of layers and clothes on where I really got the message in that early process, that to give up comfort, to release the desire for comfort. And that's where the real journey of life would begin. You know, so also inspired by Wim Hoff.
[00:20:14] You know, I started going out in my shorts and t-shirt in the depths of winter because there's a real beauty in. In that coldness, because it would actually make me stay present in the experience because when the wind or the rain was on my skin and I'm feeling the sensations apart, across however many receptors, you know, my legs and my arms and my face and the back of my neck, then it's like an overwhelming of the senses that you need to be present with.
[00:20:51] It wouldn't allow me to escape into my head and just, you know, daydream as I walked for a few Ks, I needed to be like really present in that experience and present in the experience of going home and becoming more and more aware of things. Like you mentioned, watching the leaves, blow how the grass moved.
[00:21:13] You know, I had the raindrops hit the soil. How, how it sounds. Um, how am I fate sound and crunching on the ground? How the, the river through the park sounded, you know, and being able to peak at times, like is a river LAR is the river high, how's the flow in the river, a lot through all these sounds and just being like, feeling really, really alive, like really present in that experience.
[00:21:42] And so many times I would walk for hours and then get within three or 400 meters of home. And I just stopped and I look at my house and bay lot, not and turn back around and go and walk like another six or eight Ks. And, and, you know, so it wasn't just emotionally and mentally, but also physically, because I was carrying a lot of extra white, um, being sedentary and eating really crappy sort of thought.
[00:22:13] Um, and as I spent more time more. I realized that I actually didn't want to eat as much, so I was eating lunch, you know, and then that'd be it. And I'd take a few little sort of walking snacks with me. Um, and I think in the process, you know, as I was like, everything was healing together. Like everything was getting healthy together.
[00:22:34] You know, I think I dropped like 20 or 30 kilos through the walking. Uh, I was actually drinking more water. Um, I was feeling more alive. Like I was having less sleep, but I was feeling like so much more light with it and, you know, uh, uh, cheering during the day and getting up easier, you know, rather than sort of like laying there and being like, oh God, I don't want to get out of bed, but like sort of jumping out of bed and just feeling more vibrant, like far more alive.
[00:23:07] And, and it was a really beautiful transition and beautiful experience to go through. It was like, um, it was almost like a Reba. Yeah, because I probably could say that I'd spent most of my life, um, leaving in anticipation of dying. Like I was, I had my eyes on the end, you know, I wasn't present. It was like, oh, okay, I'm here again.
[00:23:35] I'm doing another die. Like, when's this going to end? And then through that process of that, walking and connecting with nature, all of a sudden there was an actual excitement to be present in every day and to be grateful for every day and to enjoy every moment that I had and just find this profound love for the world.
[00:24:00] And that also mirrored, the profound love that I was finding for myself. And he knows walks talking to myself and becoming my own best friend and talking aloud and saying, oh my God, You think exactly the way I do. And I love the way you think and really discovering, um, what it meant to be my own best friend and realizing the depth of self I know self compliment is the correct word, but self acknowledgement and realizing that there's so much more power and beauty, uh, and love in the acknowledgement that comes from self rather than from externally.
[00:24:49] Yeah. I mean, it's nice, obviously the, you know, to, to be told like by someone else that they love you. I mean, that's beautiful and that has its place. Um, but I guess even before that can be accepted properly, there needs to be that internal conversation of, I love me. And to be able to stand myself in the eyes in the mirror, And genuinely small and they like, you're awesome.
[00:25:14] I love you. I love my life. I love doing this. I love being me.
[00:25:19] Host: It's interesting being able to see what's going on by, by speaking at aloud, and then by kind of reflecting back or feeling into what you hear and you, you can do that through writing as well. I'm sure, but this is these it's interesting too.
[00:25:34] How we miss a lot of that stuff or it just goes on without us being cognizant and once it's spoken aloud and there's this dialogue of some sort, or at least, um, listening, speaking, and a loosening a yeah. Externalizing to then deepen or re internalize, somehow what's coming up for me is, um, dreams for some reason.
[00:26:00] And this thing I read about the dreams that we have expressing them creatively onto some kind of a canvas of whatever that could be, you know, whatever that looks like to you. And then feeling into what that says back to yourself, because dreams are kind of like the, the me of, um, this kind of warped space of difficult to decipher.
[00:26:22] And I think a lot of what you're speaking to seems quite difficult to decipher, unless there's a way of, again, like externalizing and then re internalizing it.
[00:26:32] Guest: Well, it creates that cycle or the circle, because you're speaking in a loud, you then hearing your own words, you mentally processing your own, reflecting on that in the moment.
[00:26:44] But I guess there's also this purity of conversation with self that quite often doesn't happen. Um, when you're talking with someone else, because there's just a natural flow to it. Like, cause you're the, you're the target audience, so you don't need to formulate, you just allow it to sort of like. It doesn't need to be as much sort of rehearsal or contemplation of what word am I going to say next?
[00:27:14] You know, there's no, um, there's no time limit or there's no sort of finite amount of expression that you need to get out within a certain time. You can just allow it to flow. And I think that's, for me, that's more present and I get that feeling also when I talk to plants there's no, I don't need to think about what my words are.
[00:27:40] I just let it flow. And I feel that's the same when I talk to myself, I just let it flow. Yeah. And because I know how I feel and I know what I mean. And so the words become secondary. Like the words become the sounds that the emotions and the feelings travel upon and there's that real sort of magic of like, you know, manifesting, like, you know, Say like in religious texts in the Bible, they say, well, first it was the word.
[00:28:09] And then we'd created foam and it's similar to us. You know, it's like talking things into being like expressing things into being fast, as the thought with the expression that comes out through the sound. And then through that sound, things can start to manifest.
[00:28:27] Host: So once these things have manifested in this, there's been a feeling of some kind of a space or some kind of realization.
[00:28:35] Did you embark on any process of working through what you've discovered in that, in that speaking or in that building of relationship that's deepened over time? What was, what did that look like is where I'm curious about? Well, that was like a
[00:28:48] Guest: whole re writing almost of my internal operating system. So it was digging down into my thought patterns, my belief structures contemplating.
[00:29:05] Action. My actions versus my reactions to situations and really sort of digging down into that. Where did that come from? Right? When was that formed? And I found a lot of times by coming to an understanding of where that the root of that behavior or that reaction type would come from, all I needed to do was actually pinpoint how that came about.
[00:29:33] And then in a lot of ways that released like an emotional blockage or release, like the energy or the anchor of that response as psycho pulled up, the anchor, all I had to do was spot where the anchor was and then I could pull it up. And then it was the process of figuring out what new behavior, what new reactions, what new responses did I want to put into its place?
[00:29:58] And it wasn't instantaneous. Like it wasn't. I picked up the anchor, found a new spot for it and throw it down. And then that was, that was the, you know, that was like the, uh, process of almost like watching the anchor skip across the bottom of the ocean, you know, it would sort of land in this spot, but then I'd move and it would sort of bounce along the sand and then, ah, yep.
[00:30:19] Bang. And then it would sort of dig in and it'd be like, oh, okay, this is a good spot for me to anchor myself into. But I also, that changes on a regular basis. You know, it was, I think the healthy thing about beliefs and, you know, emotional sort of frameworks is for them to be constantly re-evaluated to constantly be looked at and to always be open and adaptable and malleable to, to new input, um, and not get tied to.
[00:31:00] Yeah, I really enjoy being able to like change my mind and change the way I act. And I especially enjoy it when I hear new information that actually makes me feel a bit uncomfortable because I'd gotten a bit certain of something. Um, and it may be, had become part of my, uh, library of information that I might share with other people.
[00:31:28] And then I get something else that makes me realize that the perspectives that I'd been looking at, something wasn't correct. And it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable and I'm like, oh, this is good. Like, you know, this has actually touched a nerve here and I was wrong and now I need to rate a Jost in that thinking.
[00:31:49] And I guess I just think that's such an important thing to, to be able to do is to constantly re-adjust fine. Tune. Yeah. I don't believe. Um, I don't believe we ever achieve the definitive point in that. I believe through life, through experiences, through discussions, through relationships, we're constantly finding new anchor points for our responses now, way of bang.
[00:32:19] And it's really important to allow that to just flow and to take the pressure off ourselves by realizing that there's not a finish line in that, that there's just a point where at now, and then it's a point where we're at tomorrow and that it's okay to be in a constant state of flow and in a constant state of growth and, and journey, you know, it's like a walk.
[00:32:44] Like I take the step. That's not the step that I'm going to be on in an hour, but it's a step that I'm taking at this moment.
[00:32:51] Host: Yeah. What I'm hearing from you is like you mentioned the taking the pressure off. I kind of visualize that through my language system is like, sometimes it can be from a timeframe perspective, like a, an attachment to how things should play out in a certain amount of time and how, and then re linking that back to what's actually going on.
[00:33:16] And the positive side of that. Sometimes being a signal to move us in, or get us off our asses to do something or to move in a certain direction or a certain way, but other times, and quite often I feel I hear as the case through my interactions with people in my sessions is that it can actually be something that adds an extra load on that.
[00:33:37] Um, sometimes the situations that we're in an indirect approach might be more beneficial than something so direct and in the mind and full of pressure, because I think that that pressure actually works against us and it not only slows us down, but it makes the whole system a bit more clear. And it makes it a lot more painful.
[00:34:01] It's almost like an unskillful way to suffer,
[00:34:06] Guest: sorry,
[00:34:08] Host: but it doesn't need to be there in a lot of cases. And I think a reflection on the point that you just mentioned and coming back into this state of loving oneself through acceptance and being, spending time with oneself and with the natural world, I think that has the potentiality to smooth out that process and almost gives a space for that acceptance to come into being naturally, um, rather than what I'm hearing was like pressurized or forced,
[00:34:40] Guest: uh, I think with the pressurized aspect as well, in a way that can reflect a previous self, like if we locked into a way of thinking or belief structure, That was that previous self that arrived at that point.
[00:34:56] So when we go to interact or discuss or have conversations around that at present self, actually steps out of the driver's seat and our previous self that arrived at that conclusion then takes the microphone. And it's quite easy in that pressure to get lost from what's actually happening in the moment.
[00:35:21] Host: Other people helping that scenario, I can reflect the point by speaking to another can do wonders if you can't get to a space of soulless soul
[00:35:31] Guest: refuge on your ride. Yeah. I think there the interaction with people, I definitely find that sometimes when I'm having conversations with people, a lot of.
[00:35:46] Thoughts or information. That's been all over the place in my head, like living in separate homes. Um, it can come together through me actually being present my present self at the moment now, sort of in that information. And then they joined together and it's like new understandings or new ways of seeing things come clear
[00:36:13] Host: during this, the five are coming together of your present self.
[00:36:18] Guest: So it's almost like, um, you know, let's say hold from an hour ago, learned I pull from three years ago, learnt be poll from 10 years ago. I learned, say, and in this present poll, as, um, as they're sort of maybe spreading. They because it's like an eclectic amount of information that's coming on from different versions of myself.
[00:36:47] That almost allows me to be the driver of that information. My present self is the vessel that, that information comes through.
[00:36:56] Host: I see it as the other, being an active ingredient as well. So the other, whether that's you speaking to yourself as the other, or you speaking to a plan or you speaking to another human there's something that happens in that space that I feel like it's, I'm not sure if impossible is the right word.
[00:37:14] I haven't really thought about it, but it seems like it's, it almost invites something to come into being that couldn't have been there. Otherwise, sometimes
[00:37:22] Guest: I feel the other that comes into being for me personally, um, when I'm in that present self is actually my deep internal, the wisdom of my body that holds wisdom.
[00:37:37] Realistically billions of years, when you think about Adams and everything that goes to make us up as being present on this planet for billions of years and holds all of this wisdom and all of these information and being present, sort of allows that to flow, allows that wisdom to speak through us and speak with us.
[00:38:02] I found over the years, um, th in that situation of talking with someone, so someone I know might be going through a hard time, or, you know, they're, they're playing out a negative sort of thought pattern in their head. And it's almost like my, the wisdom of my body in that present. Like starts to give them advice or a new way of thinking.
[00:38:31] And that advice is just as much for my conscious mind as it is for their conscious mind. It's like, we're both being given advice by the wisdom that's held with him, my body
[00:38:43] Host: that makes total sense. Like you're, you're somehow stepping out of the way and allowing your being to be a vessel for some highest, some higher inspiration for yourself and for the other.
[00:38:54] And for the whole, what I'm hearing is there's something really profound. You said early, I don't want to skip over it. You mentioned this whole idea of your, the wisdom in your body in itself being like something that's lasted for, you know, from the beginning of time or from, from beginning was time, this, this idea of just the representational, like what is your body?
[00:39:20] It is exactly that. And having. Being able to tap into that wisdom or that knowledge in moments seems like, and when you mentioned presence, I hear, I hear sometimes this idea of coming into the body and listening to it, but I'm also having things rush over me in terms of this idea of having all this, all this, not even from all those like lifetimes or all those kinds of all the galactic wisdom that's inside of you, but even just from this life and everything that you've lived in experience and all the trauma and excitement and experiences and wonder, and love and all these different shades of the spectrum that your body's been through this whole time.
[00:40:09] And as it's constantly going through this birth and, and, and death and rebirth. You know, which, which each of your blood cells doing every moment and it's, there's something being stored in that process. And when we're able to get out of the mindspace, maybe not so much run away or get out of it, but at least coming to a state of presence, which again is almost like working in unison with the mind body and the heart.
[00:40:35] Then I think there isn't an, there's a potentiality for bringing up that wisdom. That's already there within us that we don't need to seek from an external place. It's the way I feel into it is coming into a, uh, like being quiet enough to listen to what's already there or removing enough layers of distraction or whatever else that's kind of in there.
[00:40:59] It's like when you go into a space and look at the stars in a natural setting, that's not full of light everywhere. Nothing's really changed in the sky. But for you, you see something completely different and the darker and more. Oh, are from these external sources of, um, excitement in the form of light, the more clear and, and kind of open you are to being receptive to what's always going on.
[00:41:25] And man, I've seen some amazing things in those moments. Like sometimes I feel like they shooting stars that are going on all the time and they never ended. So it's like, oh wow, this must just be what's happening all the time. We can never see it. I've thought that a few times. And it makes me wonder if that's what's really going on with what's happening inside us.
[00:41:47] There's this wisdom that's swirling around at all moments, waiting for us to take a drink if we have a really needed. But it's just about somehow what I'm hearing now, which I'm just kind of thinking about for the first time, I guess, is in this way is like externalizing something. Um, but then also being quiet enough as well.
[00:42:08] Maybe they work together, you know, there's like a.
[00:42:12] Guest: The process of being witnessed or a willingness to beat weakness to your body's wisdom. And like what you were saying, the body is the keeper of stories. The body keeps all of our stories, the body, the body can contain, or almost has a quick access to every memory of every experience that we've ever had.
[00:42:38] Um, you know, which plays a part in obviously safety, you know, uh, a body. We don't need our mind to, to tell us that we've just touched something hot like that. The body remembers that story. You know, the body remembers a story of something that's called that's hot, that's spiky, that's unpleasant, that's pleasant, you know, there's quite often, it's a body that actually tells him mind about, you know, that feels not.
[00:43:08] Yeah. And it's the body that's actually telling the mind that it's not the, and mind processing art. Does that feel nice? Oh yes. That does. Like, there's this taking of taking the lead of the body at times. And I feel for me, it's been about becoming aware of that, like consciously understanding the wisdom.
[00:43:30] Um, that's how in my body and being open to accepting that it has been really powerful and, and, and an acknowledgement, which is also then another expression of a deepening self-love because it's like, wow. You know, my body contains all of this wisdom. My body, you know, has, has a lot to say, like, sometimes it's scary, you know, that we're speaking about earlier, you know, like, as I'm becoming more consciously in touch with how my body feels.
[00:44:06] Like sometimes that's a little bit uncomfortable, you know, because it's like, all my angle is really tight and it's sore and I need to move it more. And I can find sometimes is that desire to step away from that. Like, I'm choosing to become aware of an uncomfortable sensation in my body, which is there, whether I fit, whether I choose to feel it or not, it's there, but I'm choosing to feel that uncomfortable and to see my ankle and then deciding to actually do something about it.
[00:44:44] Like stretching it, moving it more like releasing that. But there is also, um, the desire for the instant gratification to just remove my connection from my body.
[00:44:56] Host: This is an interesting space to explore. Then that's coming back into that sense of comfort and freedom. We tend to feel like sitting in this discomfort might be something that closes us off, but it's quite liberating to work through the process of what you're articulating and just kind of sit in that discomfort or explore what that is and what what's going on there.
[00:45:21] I had this experience recently during one of my meditations and it was a BA a deepened body scan meditation. So I was going through different parts of my body and I was giving love to those parts that I had probably forgotten about. Definitely forgotten about like, you know, how many times do you sit there and think about the bottom of your right foot, unless it's in pain.
[00:45:44] So I was giving love to these pots that cause our bodies made up of all these intricate different parts and it's like so much is going on, but we kind of automate everything and take it for granted without realizing sometimes, or it can, it can be the case. Going back over these different parts and acknowledging that they're there and being like, what would I do without this part?
[00:46:08] Like how special is this part of my body that maybe I haven't thought about for three years? And how cool is it? Like it's like really getting to know yourself in a way through the body. So we initially started with the walking, which is, I guess, the walking and the talking, which is in a way both of those things together.
[00:46:27] And we've explored this idea of the talking and externalizing and almost like speaking to the psyche or something, or psyche speaking to itself, however, whatever the right way to put that would be. And then now I'm, I guess thinking about what's coming up for me is this talking to the different body parts and speaking back to the body and that whole thing about the body being a temple and being worth looking after.
[00:46:54] And I guess there's all these ways that we see also that make us feel uncomfortable when we do examine. About how he may be ignoring parts of our body and how we may be abusing other parts and how we may be con contributing to the ongoing trauma that way our body, or the higher deeper sense of who we are, is experiencing and how that is being represented in the way that our body is like everything, you know, we eat too much McDonald's and you're probably gonna put on some weight.
[00:47:27] So there's, there's something that happens there. Whatever our form of distraction is. So I guess just like the walking and the movement is a way to come back into your body and you're approaching the physical and the mental and the spiritual. It sounds like all at the same time, I guess, acknowledging the body, moving away from distraction and coming back into that deeper connection with yourself with a sense of love.
[00:47:54] In some way, I feel begins to unravel. Unconscious element of the way that we treat ourselves. And then I think when things are obvious enough, we just stop. But I, that needs a point that is difficult as well, because we're in this habitual motions. But yeah, I think we have the power to move that in different directions or nudge it around and play with that.
[00:48:18] We don't have to always be with our friend at home having the same conversations over and over again. We can go for that walk and another option. That's what keeps coming up for me, just stepping into a new and,
[00:48:29] Guest: and well it's and coming back to revisit, you know, again, like connecting with our bodies, like that same idea of like the anchor bouncing along the ocean floor.
[00:48:40] Um, we don't need to sit here and spend the rest of our life consciously thinking about ankle and how it feels we can move away from that, but you need to come back to it and it's like those regular check-ins. I, you know, obviously throughout my life, you know, I could put my hand on my chest and I could feel a heartbeat.
[00:49:06] Um, at times of, you know, like really furious heart beating, whether it was after some exercise or, you know, like fright or whatever I could feel, I could feel that it was panning against my ribcage. Um, but it was only recently, you know, maybe a few months ago when I was doing like, started doing some Wim Hof breathing exercises.
[00:49:29] And in part of that guided process, he says, now feel your heart. And I could actually, for the first time in my life, I could feel my heart pumping. I could feel it like squeezing and contracting and releasing contracting and releasing like these fundamental part of what our body does. So I could have such high importance.
[00:49:53] And for the first time, The I know of in 45 years, I actually become aware of it. And, um, at felt beautiful. I was actually, I actually cried. Um, cause I'm like, wow, I can feel my heart. And you know, it's not just that, um, the, the, the logical aspect of what the heart pumps the blood, but then there's all of those other, like the metaphors and the symbology around the heart being the center of the emotions and, you know, all of these other ideas and concepts of what the heart relates to our connection to self connection, to love.
[00:50:33] And, and in that feeling of the contraction and relaxing of my heart, I felt like this even deeper connection with all of those other things that are connected to, you know, the notion of the heart inside the body. And it was, it was really beautiful and, uh, Like for me, connecting with the body, even after all of that walking, which might sound counterintuitive.
[00:51:03] And there was definitely a connection with the body, but it was almost like really surface level connection. Like it wasn't deep connection. Like I wasn't feeling the fact that my ankles were taught. I wasn't feeling the fact that my knees are tight or my hips are tight. I was feeling my feet touching the ground and I could feel like my legs moving.
[00:51:23] And, you know, I get a little bit of pain in my calves and that it was almost like I was sitting in the car driving, you know, always driving my body. And in the same way, when we're driving a car, we feel when we hit a bump, we feel, you know, as a centrifugal forces, when we turn a corner, we feel that that moves us, but we're not actually feeling the tire touching the road.
[00:51:49] We're not actually feeling the spring contracts. Up and down inside the suspension, we're not feeling the gases going through the exhaust, you know, w we're superficially aware of them. And that's what my relationship with my body was like, even in all of that walking, there was like a superficial awareness even with the cold.
[00:52:10] And that was yes, bringing me into present moment. But I guess I feel like all of the stuff with connecting with selfies, like level after level, after level after level, there is no. Um, so there's no finish point to it. And so it's like the cycle, you know, and as I'm connecting more with my body now, which I'm sure in a year or two from now, I will look back on how I'm connecting with my body now.
[00:52:40] And I would still look at that as being superficial and then I'm sure that process will continue. Um, but you know, the feelings that I get from my body now, um, More connection. Um, I'm actually allowing my body now to tell me when it hurts. Um, I had, uh, a technique of dealing with physical pain in my body, um, you know, through trauma and all of that stuff.
[00:53:08] But sorry, what was that? I, I have a technique of dealing with pioneer, my body, which is to get angry. So I get angry and thinking about it now in this moment, it's almost like I get angry at my body for feeling pain and like shame it or scare into stop telling me that that saw like, you know, when I injured myself at work recently, um, and my first response is to get angry and then I can focus on that anger and I don't have to focus on the part of my body that I've just hurt.
[00:53:42] And instead of going into that natural. Emotion of anger. I actually sat with the physical sensation of the pain and just allow that to be, and, and that was uncomfortable. I wasn't sort of, wasn't sort of used to that. Um, so yeah, I'm really trying to, well, I'm walking this very long, lifelong journey of, you know, connecting him with my body.
[00:54:11] Um, and like we were discussing earlier, you know, even just learning how to seat comfortably, um, learning what it feels like to, you know, stretch my body and move my body. Um, all of these beautiful and uncomfortable experiences, because they're, they're humbling in the sense of making me feel like a beginner, making me feel like.
[00:54:45] Um, a complete novice, you know, where I thought I was an expert at being me, but I'm not an expert at aspects of being Paul, but I'm not an expert in, um, pain connected, deeply and feeling my own body. I'm a novice at that.
[00:55:07] Host: It's interesting that the awareness will, that brings about a change on its own. Just knowing that and accepting that means that there's something new in the mix, which is something I heard.
[00:55:19] Yeah. On a previous episode. So this is quite an interesting thing. I'm just, yeah. I'm thinking about this kind of realization that we are all in that kind of a state and this was all always going on. And I keep some reason thinking about what happened to me with the car the other day had this like back left tire that was really flat.
[00:55:38] My brother had been telling me about for a while. And the cows would be bumpier than normal, but I just kinda thought it was just whatever. I didn't really wasn't really sure if it was there or not. And I'm thinking about what you said earlier about you and your ankle while you're sitting. And, um, he messaged me as I was kind of doing some errands and he was like, make sure you fill up your tire.
[00:55:58] It's pretty bad, man. And I was like, what do you call that bad? And then I'm going to do the errands. And I was like, oh, I should probably check this tire that he's going on about the tires he said, and I went to fill it all the tires up and they were meant to be between 33 and 36 PSI check the first tire.
[00:56:14] It was like 40 PSI, second tire, 45 or something. Third, one 40. And the back left was like on eight. So I was driving around with eight PSI on my back left tire for who knows how long? Um, it reminds me of what you were saying about the body. It's like. Yeah, it's always going to be a state of, um, coming back into a remembering or re tending to, and that's a beautiful thing.
[00:56:39] And there's an exploration that takes place when we're looking at our pain. And when we're looking at as an another example, just sitting down in a meditation posture and feeling into whatever pain that we're going through, the pain, what I've noticed is it doesn't stay the same. It might increase in intensity or decrease in intensity, or it spread and be shared by different parts of your body as they all come in and help with your attention.
[00:57:03] But it shifts and moves. It's not the same quality the whole time. And I think that can be some kind of a solo suite can take in the idea of that, that whatever we're going through, isn't going to last forever. And it is always in a state of flux and change. And we can help that part of the journey along through accepting whatever it is rather than trying to make it different.
[00:57:27] Guest: But then if we receive. That's where it can take longer. I think the example you gave of your car then is perfect because you got used to the fact that it was all out of balance. Yes. And, and I sort of feel like that's similar to what's happened with me, with my body. Yes. Is I've gotten really used to operating it, driving it with it, being out of balance.
[00:57:53] And I, you know, a kinesiologist guy, who's just an absolute wizard that I see. Um, he's
[00:58:01] Host: still going to share this guy's
[00:58:01] Guest: statement. Um, he suggested to me when I went out for this, what he said to me next time you go for a walk, think about animals and think about a different animal. Like as you walk. And don't so much focus on trying to make my body move like the animal, but think about how the animal walks and your body will slowly start to do it.
[00:58:26] Hmm. I went through a few animals, but it was actually a Jaguar
[00:58:31] Host: what'd you go through before you got there?
[00:58:32] Guest: Oh, I went through an elephant and a bear, which wasn't that? Yeah. Which wasn't that good? Because they, they have like a clunky, a sort of style of movement, which is what I was already doing. So the JAG, huh?
[00:58:47] Yeah. So I hit the Jaguar and like how they just have that. Yeah. Like gray, like everything moves
[00:58:52] Host: together. Well, they're quite a, um, they're quiet. I feel like they're quiet. It seems more, more in touch with their body. I don't know, then a bear or an elephant, like who knows, but like they do feel like they're in touch with the intricacies of movement, just from the visualization I'm getting from jungle book or whatever, but
[00:59:09] Guest: even handle like that.
[00:59:10] Yeah. They can use their bodies. And, and I did that and I, I sort of carried that thought of the Jaguar for probably a good 10 or 15 Ks. And the really interesting thing was when I got home, after that walk, my legs went sort of. I actually had saw hips because I was like rolling in my movement and I wasn't slamming down on my ankles and my knees, I was letting everything sort of roll in this sort of like movement.
[00:59:39] And I was obviously moving parts of my hips that I normally don't move that I probably keep quite rigid. Um, say in that feeling of discomfort in my hips was almost like you checking the tire gauge on that back tire and realizing it was, I, you know, it was like may going, oh shit, hang on, Nick. This is old sort of bane out of balance for a while.
[01:00:00] And I hadn't noticed it and say, yeah, I think that's a really sort of interesting part of, I feel like where I'm at at the moment with like the self-love stuff is, um, yeah. Stepping into that sort of infant state of body connection. And sometimes it's a bit annoying. Um, Yeah. Sometimes it's that little bit of impatience of, oh my God.
[01:00:27] Just, you know, why can't I just do an hour of yoga every day? Like, why aren't I into that? Why can't I be doing all of these stretches? And, but it's realizing that I can, but I actually got to put the effort in, you know,
[01:00:42] Host: learning the new winds instruments. Yeah. It's just, yeah. That's, it's a fascinating thing.
[01:00:49] Just I'm thinking of deepening this idea of body movement in an animal sense. And I've heard, I had a recent discussion with someone they're running actually a body movement retreat up in Sydney in a couple of months. And it's all about kind of getting in touch with your body and going into the, into nature and kind of moving in this way.
[01:01:10] That feels like you're at feels more enlivening and it feels like it feels more right than what we've been boxed into doing like the way you walk in a, in a sense. Dimension or area when you're walking through the sidewalks and crossing the streets and you know, you're walking in that kind of a way you can't walk like that in nature.
[01:01:31] There's rocks scramble over there's rivers that are running and you need to kind of figure out your balance and coming to that animal side of your movement. I think that might be a really sweet place to explore for you and for me as you. Yeah, that actually sounds like a great idea. There's nothing more fun.
[01:01:47] I feel so alive when I scrambling over rocks, I was with my cousin and we're in Japan and we came across this whole Rocky area. And I just remember the feeling of like, I feel so alive right now. And I don't know why. And it's, it's, it's coming into these contact using your hands and feet across the rocks and jumping from it's like this child playful enemy and, um, energy.
[01:02:08] We've spoken about this before in on that river actually. And it is, so it brings us back to that childlike state of play and it feels although foreign to the. I think there is something that that's really, um, quite therapeutic and you do feel the pain of that. It's like you haven't worked out for a while.
[01:02:28] So going back to the gym on guard for that first run is quite torturous, but it's kind of a good feeling of pain I've noticed. Like it's okay. It's kind of good that these hips are maybe feeling a bit better and it, you know, it's good now that, oh, it feels a bit different that I've pumped that back tire up, but it's kinda nice having my wheels full and not kind of bumping along as much.
[01:02:48] Yeah. Yeah.
[01:02:49] Guest: It's climbing a tres, another like, example of that because you know, you using your hands and your fate and your body, like he's moving in all these different ways as you sort of swinging yourself around the branches. And then, um, I haven't done it for a while, but it's like this instantaneous, like charred excitement that comes back to me.
[01:03:12] Like I wrapped my arms around the first branch and start like clone myself up that tree, like this real moment of like. Presence in play. And where am I going to put my foot? Where am I getting grabbed on to? How does this feel against my hand? Check out the view for a little bit. Yeah. Is this rough against my hand?
[01:03:32] Can I pull myself up with the sensation and, yeah, but I mean, going back a step it's I guess what I'm finding at the moment with where I'm at with connecting with my body is, is sort of like this, um, like Pargo effect because I'm feeling it and then I'm feeling the pine and now I'm trying to see it with that, but then I'm like pulling back a bit.
[01:03:52] Cause I'm like, oh, this is difficult. This is uncomfortable. So it's like dipping in and out.
[01:03:59] Host: But I think that when that happens for me, at least that dipping in and out is gradually, it's got some directionality to it and that is the process. It seems like we go in when we're going into something new and out of something as well.
[01:04:15] Like this, it seems like we can't just, as humans began, whatever it is, we need to begin. There's always like a stepping into, and that does take a bit of a back and forth, but with movement, it seems, that seems, that sounds completely natural, frustrating at the same
[01:04:31] Guest: time, convey a bit impatient, like, um, uh, you know, I'm a bit sort of like gung ho when I get into something.
[01:04:38] Yep.
[01:04:39] Host: You know, I, well, it feels that makes it even more rewarding when you start getting the hang of it and it's like, oh, now we're moving. And then that's the next phase. And then after that, it's like, now we're not only moving, but now we're having fun in this space. Now we're playing in here. And then, you know, as, as you kind of progress, it goes that way.
[01:04:56] Or, or go in the other direction, you know, you stop giving that that enough. Oh, sorry. You stopped giving that part of you the same amount of attention and that slowly fades out. So the next time you return to it, it's even harder and harder. Yeah. So I guess that's the whole game of what we.
[01:05:14] Guest: An interesting, like I had a thought, you know, well, it's happened a few times, um, recently, you know, where I stopped.
[01:05:23] Um, I don't know. Cataloguing might not be the right way, but I start like, sort of laying out this path of like, okay, well, uh, you know, I got to get more in contact with my body. I've got to do this morning to stretch more. I need to do, you know, and then I've got a lot really getting to, um, I've got to start doing more focused breathing and then I need to meditate.
[01:05:43] And I start to like really Paul, all
[01:05:46] Host: of these list of pretty overwhelming. Yeah. Think of all the stuff that Ben, it becomes
[01:05:51] Guest: super overwhelming, but then I'm getting paid at taking a step back, taking a breath and going, but I've got a lifetime to do this. And then
[01:06:01] Host: also we even need to get it done in that time.
[01:06:03] If you don't, it's like, there's not even . Well, what else is more worthwhile?
[01:06:07] Guest: Yes. What else is more worthwhile than like selfless? Um, and becoming deeply and truly am lovingly connected with my mind, my heart, my body, my feelings, my emotions, like what else is more worthwhile or more important in this world to do than to have a loving relationship with the totality of yourself.
[01:06:35] Host: Just the, that you're diving into love itself is a beautiful thing. And you're shaking up that space. It's just some picturing, like, you know, all the sort of the bottom, and then once you shake up all the glittering, the glow Caren or whatever they call it goes via the, you know what I'm talking about, slow cart thing, whatever it is, you start carving out.
[01:06:55] I
[01:06:55] Guest: think that's what it's called. Slow down, slow down. Okay. That's
[01:07:00] Host: was talking about, um, yeah. It's like, yeah. There's beauty that comes up. Um, yeah, so that's definitely a worthwhile endeavor that kind of threw me off what my mind path was, where, where we were kind of tracking along. But definitely, definitely this idea of, um, giving love sometimes.
[01:07:17] Yeah. This idea of the, it gets a bit confusing about loving yourself, loving others. And we've spoken about this and, you know, in different groups from different perspectives, we've looked at this from a group setting as well. And I think all in all, whatever your language is, if you're taking time to show some compassion to others, and you're in a space where you're enlivening love within yourself, And you're being kind and gentle to yourself in the process is a beautiful thing.
[01:07:46] And that's that now, now it's kind of clicking again. So you're talking about this overwhelming feeling. When you looked at all the different ways, you could be better and grow and get all that stuff for me, what comes up is, uh, any importance to looking at that kind of a thing, like writing those things down, it brings a sense of writing your own story in a way, like I'm looking at the way I want to who I, who I'm, who I am in this moment and the way I want to, you know, add modules onto this being and whatever I'm doing and where I'm going, but then it's doing that.
[01:08:17] But then letting go of that, which is the thing. If you don't do that at all, I don't know. That's, that's an interesting space. If you do too much of that, that's also an interesting space that can be too much pressure in that again, pulling the beating up of oneself based on what we expect, but it's, it's, it's an interesting space to play in or experiment with.
[01:08:39] Again, the dipping in and out. So sometimes the dipping in and out might not be such a bad thing,
[01:08:44] Guest: uh, and, and doing it with love, you know, it's something that, um, it's nice to say. My wife, um, my wife, Emma, um, Israeli sort of been talking to me about a lot recently of when you do something to do it with love, and then the minute you stop doing it with love, step back out of it, and like take a bit of a break, you know, using the example.
[01:09:07] Um, so she was, um, re-potting some plants the other day and, you know, she was really lovingly re-potting them. And then she said she got to a point where it had become like she, all of a sudden she noticed her feeling and shifted to it, almost being a bit of a chore, like, oh, I have to get this done. And she took that as her cue to get up, come inside, have a cup of tea, relax.
[01:09:32] And then going re approach. That's good. The partying of the plants. Yeah. Love. And, um, I guess like, this is just, I mean, you know, I could sit here for the next year and tell you about why my relationship with Emma is fantastic, but there's all of these beautiful, like wisdom that Emma brings to our relationship, which seems to really compliment, um, where I'm an infant in my journey, you know, like eminence Bain into doing a lot of, you know, meditation and yoga and health with, uh, you know, uh, eating and all of that sort of stuff.
[01:10:13] Um, so she always just seems to hit like these really beautiful cave bits of wisdom for. Like right where I'm sort of seeding. Uh, and even, you know, like I was discussing with, uh, I think it was last night, um, about something we were doing where she was running me through a yoga and, uh, and I was gone, but I'm fighting really hard, you know?
[01:10:36] Cause my brain's like, oh, I can't do this. And I can't do that. And she's like, yeah, that's what everyone's brains doing. You just don't realize it. You know, everyone's sort of in that. Uh, a lot of the time, like maybe just because the person's done yoga for years, it doesn't mean that they're like just a hundred percent Zen as they're doing their yoga movements.
[01:10:56] You know, they might still be that little inner voices are God, I think straight she's much more or how, you know, so I guess that was sort of good to hear. That's a huge thing. Cause I'm like, I'm the beginning. So I'm like sitting here like screaming in my head. Like I don't want to do this stretch, you know?
[01:11:13] And, but like sort of thinking like, oh God, you know, feeling this pressure, you know, like, like when we had the space, you know, a few weeks back and everyone seems to be sitting quiet still and calm, like as we're doing the meditation and unlike fidgeting and you know, and I'm like, oh, in my head I'm like, oh my calm, why can't everyone else?
[01:11:35] See, he said, calmly, everyone else in here is like a Zen master except for me. And then it's like, The internal dialogue starts to make it become more difficult. Cause you like everyone else is doing it so easy, but probably realizing that, you know, I'm showing that I was probably some other people who's sitting there who maybe had a saw Bart as well, or, you know, but, but they, you know, are a little bit further into exploring how to be comfortable with sitting there on this.
[01:12:01] So about where I'm just starting to learn. So I'm feel like Fiji and at a place.
[01:12:06] Host: So it happens in life quite a lot. I think for me, I've found when that happens. I get a similar thing that Emma does when she stops and walks outside. I just see it as comparison it's comparing. And I say that as like a trap that I fall into some times with what my ambitions are or what I'm doing with this podcast or what I'm doing with the spaces or whatever I'm doing with having sessions with people or whatever it might be.
[01:12:34] I feel like I get into this. I look at what other people are doing and I imagine. Where they're at. And then I look at the difference between where I am and where they are or where I want to be. And it just blows everything out instead of just being like, all right, well, I'm here on my journey. This is where I'm at right now.
[01:12:55] And this is what I'm going through and that's okay. And that's normal. And I think that reminder from Emma is that we're all kind of, you know, I used to think when we were kids that everyone had it figured out and when you get older, you're like, no one knows what the fuck's going on. And that's quietly people
[01:13:15] Guest: writing.
[01:13:15] Uh, is that one of the most powerful realizations? Yeah. When you realize that you're all sort of figuring it out as she got her. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We're really good at doing that. We're really good at comparing ourselves to others and. Consciously or unconsciously placing that person on a pedestal by saying, they've got it all figured out, look at how easy everything,
[01:13:40] Host: but they might, and they might have it on that angle, but life's made up of different components and then there's yeah.
[01:13:46] And everything, once you go, yeah. They're not us. And there's a unique, special thing to you that, you know, this is what I've kind of noticed with, with certain aspects of my life. I might not be the best at this thing, but because of that, I'm really good at this other element of life that maybe someone else might not be so good at, but they would be good at something else.
[01:14:08] So there's just like weird, um, bringing together of who you are from this remix of elements that make you special and unique and embracing, and being with that through love is what really. Gets things going. Cause then, then you can share that with everyone and add to the collective, you know, melting pot of whatever's happening right now, which no one really knows what it is like we just kind of pointed to, but it's like, that's all part of it being, being more in touch, I think with our unique, special self or the uniqueness within us, that even if it seems like we want to get better at certain things, there's, there's a beauty in the way we are already.
[01:14:50] You know, I think there is this whole thing about getting better and growing and always achieving more and more and more. That's also part of the human condition and it's like, fair enough. That's probably always going to be the case and the acceptance of some, some area of that might be really beneficial.
[01:15:05] But then there's this idea of also just pausing for a moment and remembering who we are like through love that that comes through love. And I think, yeah, walking into that, just to come back all the way to the beginning is a beautiful. Because we're kind of walking into the present. We're not walking to get anywhere.
[01:15:26] It didn't sound like you were walking to get to the end of somewhere. You all just adding on an extra couple of cases here and there, you got back home. I'm going to add another couple of Ks on, it's not even about where you're going. That's the whole cliche about it's about the journey, but it's like, it really is
[01:15:41] Guest: at ease.
[01:15:42] And I think he just made a really good point. Then when you were saying about looking at something and going, oh, well, I'm not good at that. Well, it's because our attentions have been elsewhere and yeah, I guess that is a really good point to reflect on is the fact that yeah. Okay. I'm not good at that because I haven't been paying attention to that, but I am really good at this because I've been paying attention to that and I can become as good at this new thing.
[01:16:11] If I pay that same level of attention will be a consequence of that. You know, being social, you know, so the way that they punish a prisoner, so they've already taken away their freedom. They put them in jail and let's say a person who's in a maximum security prison. You could assure him isn't around like the nicest people.
[01:16:32] But the way that they punish a prisoner inside jail is to put them in isolation. So they understand that, that way. So inherently social as, as social creatures, that the why that you ultimately punish someone is to take away all connection to people around them. You know, and even if the people around you, I, uh, murder is an dangerous, it's still worse for you to be isolated from them.
[01:17:03] Host: An interesting space. When you look at the wisdom that comes from solitude in comparison to what you just expressed,
[01:17:09] Guest: which is a. And if there's a difference between the choosing the solid exactly. And an enforced.
[01:17:15] Host: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But you could still get wisdom from this force solitude and that happened.
[01:17:21] I've heard stories of that happening in prison in solitary confinement, where people have awakened to some higher truth and come out and change their whole lives. I've heard
[01:17:31] Guest: some amazing stories about like people finding an understanding what true freedom is through incarceration. Um, understanding the freedom of the mind, you know, is it, I mean, I that's, what I believe also is that the only place that freedom truly exists is in our mind, because you could say that just in, well, maybe even in our mind to a point, freedom is illusionary because every aspect of our life is bound by external forces.
[01:18:06] We need to breathe oxygen. Um, We need to create the oxygen so we can have oxygen in our blood, so it can pump to all of our, you know, so we don't have the freedom in our mind, for instance, you state, well, I'm going to stop breathing well, we do, but then we will eventually we die or pass out and then we no longer even have our mind to have the freedom within.
[01:18:27] Um, but yeah, sorry. I went off on a tangent there.
[01:18:32] Host: That's okay. I find it interesting that our bodies have been kind of, I'm going to say, use the word evolved, but I think what I mean is we, we're kind of, everything kind of fits really well in the place that we are and where we're a part of that. And I think we can forget that sometimes that we're connected back into that system.
[01:18:54] We're not just an extraction point and separate from that system. We're a part of it and everything fits so well because of that reason. And there's a, there's a giving back in some way that we can, we can contribute. And I think one of those ways. You know, I think the ultimate way is to come back into a sense of love, love for the system itself, which includes ourselves.
[01:19:19] So that's, I think the definition of self love than I'm hearing when I think about it.
[01:19:25] Guest: Well, well, actually, yeah, it seems interesting. You brought that point up because I was listening to something recently where we're actually far more of a system than we normally are aware of. Like obviously the old, you know, human, uh, I think therefore I am, and we, we spend so much for our time and our energy and our thoughts thinking about us as an individual, but, and a lot of ways when not that much different to an ant in a hive, we old completely rely on each other.
[01:20:03] Interestingly, there is not, I person there is most likely not a person alive on this planet now who knows how to make a pencil, like to make a whole pencil, to know how to get the resources, to make the pigment, to paint the pencil, to know how to create the tools, to cut the timber, to shake the pencil who knows how to mind the graphite and shape the graphite to insert into the pencil who knows how to mine, the metals and, and, you know, smelt them to, you know, let alone the rubber.
[01:20:38] Yeah. We
[01:20:38] Host: are a part of this integral system that, that is like, we would not be able to survive without others. And there's a beautiful, humbling experience that takes place when we remember that. Yeah. And when we honor that, really, I like to do that before I eat. I started doing that after I spent some time in a monastery and they just do it before.
[01:21:01] It's remembering that that meal has come from, you know, honoring the farmers that it's come from and all the people driving the transport trucks and all the other elements of that allowed it to come into being from the sunshine to the rain, to, you know, the person that you know, was that working works, you know, long shifts.
[01:21:21] They feed their family at the grocery store at the checkout to sell you that, that, you know, a bit of food. That's now one part of this whole meal that you're eating. There's all these different elements that have come together from all these different places, possibly
[01:21:36] Guest: thousands of
[01:21:37] Host: people. Well, the way I've been thinking about it is I think it goes in cycles.
[01:21:42] So if you think about the sunshine and the rain that went into food, that's gone into someone's being. To give them energy. Yeah. There's
[01:21:51] Guest: like, yeah. And then the meals that they've eaten, of course it gave them. Yeah. So it's a whole
[01:21:58] Host: new level to it though. It's just this endless stream really. And that's all going into your being and you can sit there and eat that meal while staring at Netflix unconsciously and feed the dopamine receptors and distract yourself from your being ness in that moment, which, you know, I'm not, and I'm not advocating putting pressure or being harsh on yourself if you're doing that as well.
[01:22:25] Because sometimes that refuge seeming refuge is kind of, you know, is a part of the experience as well, to help that volcano eventually erupt into something else. But. All right. All you can sit there and eat the food and, and think about these things, or at least give on a toy for a moment. And that's kind of a beautiful way that I've found there's other ways.
[01:22:46] And I think it's worth embodying some of those little rituals in your life and finding whatever works for you and exploring that space at least because it's all true. Everything is connected and it's something we always forget. So there's like this, again, these elements that we're sharing is like gentleness with yourself, for the forgetfulness process.
[01:23:07] And then coming back to remembering that you've got that ankle or that back tire, and then it's sharing that with others. That's all coming up for me at the moment. And that all is, are elements that encompass all that self-loving encompasses. Is that what we're really speaking to? Right.
[01:23:26] Guest: And well, and. In giving gratitude to the food, which again, is another thing that Emma's like doing every time we're eating and yeah, like not telling me to do it,
[01:23:39] Host: for example,
[01:23:39] Guest: she's, she's fantastic at that.
[01:23:42] Um, you know, and so like, even today, when I was having my sandwich for breakfast, you know, I'm a toasted sandwich and like giving gratitude to, to everyone involved in that, you know, the animals and, um, but yeah, I've got to add the sun and the wind and the rain into that one. Um, but it's, ah, it just feels like really beautiful because again, you know, you go to that deeper level, the gratitude that we're giving to others is part of the, you know, they're part of the system that we're part of.
[01:24:10] So that expression of gratitude outward is actually also an expression of gratitude inwards.
[01:24:17] Host: Yeah. And I think that, that brings us perfectly to what you would speaking to initially with talking to yourself or talking to the plans or. Going for those walks and spending time to 10 that in a garden through what seems to be an external thing.
[01:24:34] Yeah. Like speaking aloud to a tree or writing something down
[01:24:38] Guest: or, well, it's the manifestation through words, you know, like when you put a group of letters together, it's called spell, you know, and when we think of like wizards and magicians and whatever, doing something magical, it's a spell, you know? So we're actually doing something magical by making these sounds that have meaning behind them and making that sound the loud, you know, it it's it's energy, you know?
[01:25:06] So it might not be visible. The words that we speak, aren't visible to our eyes, but they're manifesting and creating things, you know, thought forms, energy, ripples. Um, I mean, how many times you've ever had the experience of like. Talking about someone that you might not have heard from in a while, or, you know, or even actually just thinking about that.
[01:25:28] And then next thing, you know, there's the phone rings and there they are, or, you know, an email arrives, you know, I find that a lot like Emma, and I'll be talking about someone, they'll say something and then say, oh yeah. It's like, um, you know, that concept of quantum entanglement, you know, it doesn't matter how far away two things are.
[01:25:49] They can still be linked energetically. And, and I think the great thing is like, with a lot of this stuff, we talk about, you know, and you can talk about it metaphysically, and you can talk about it philosophically. Um, but the beautiful thing with most of this stuff is it's actually also confirmed in science.
[01:26:07] I mean, they just do a much more convoluted way of explaining it and you need like multiple textbooks and 10 years of study to understand the language they use.
[01:26:18] Host: Um, it's interesting this idea of synchronicities though, and I know young did some work on synchronicities and found that, I don't know, I don't know who found this, but it was something I read somewhere that it was like occurrences that happen more often than probably like according to mathematically, you know, probable mathematics.
[01:26:39] I don't know. That would be likely in that, in that equation or whatever. So, um, it's, it is an interesting thing. That feeds that part of the brain that needs that scientific kind of validation. But there's also the sense of knowing it from experience like I'm experiencing now. And I feel this could be true, but I'm pretty open to be wrong as well.
[01:27:00] That somehow the synchronicities in my life, um, come along at certain times where I feel the most, like I am in line or I'm walking in a way that is, is listening to the intelligence of the body through self-love. Yeah. So that kind of these synchronicities are almost like little light posts pointing me or reminding me almost like, oh yeah, like a little tap on the shoulder or everything's all good.
[01:27:25] Guest: It's really beautiful. Like, ah, like the, um, like the signposts of the universe, you know, saying, I mean
[01:27:32] Host: they could be, who knows what's actually going on.
[01:27:36] Guest: It feels like that. Like, um, one of the songs that was really special to me. Um, through my journey of like self-love and dealing with all my trauma and stuff was the Beatles.
[01:27:47] He comes to sun. And
[01:27:50] Host: how do we, it synchronicity, cause you guys played that at
[01:27:52] Guest: your wedding. The first proper date that Emma and I went on and we were walking up to the restaurant that we're going to eat and was a gone the acoustic guitar playing. He comes to sun in like in my head. I'm not being and, and quite often.
[01:28:06] Okay. So maybe it's because we look out for it. So we can't exclude that, but quite often, Emma and I will go places. And that just happens to be playing in the background.
[01:28:15] Host: I, if we synchronous is interesting though, because I've had a similar thing happened with like certain, um, women in my life, for example.
[01:28:22] And it's like maybe how it's, how I read it at the time might've been like, this is the one, but ended up being really good friends with that person. So it's like, you don't exactly know what it's pointing to, but it's kind of saying for me, what I've heard is you're in the right place at the right time.
[01:28:37] Or it's like, you always are, but this is. It's like an it's like, it grabs your attention. It's like, Hey, like you can't ignore this. Yeah.
[01:28:46] Guest: And it's really important as well. You know, like when you, when you're saying that, um, that it could be referring to the fact that you're in a loving place, in a loving interaction, loving
[01:29:00] Host: vibe.
[01:29:01] Yeah.
[01:29:01] Guest: Yeah. And, and it's based on love. And, and we can have that with people. Um, you know, we can have intensely deep loving relationships with someone that last for two months that we maybe never see again. And that, that love, um, is just as genuine and valid as an ongoing love, you know? And that doesn't mean that all, because that, that relationship, you know, dissolved or we went our separate ways.
[01:29:33] It doesn't mean that there was any. Aspect of deep love and all that, that love snakes in some way, whilst it was actually, that was what it was meant to be. It was meant to be for a month. It was meant to be for six months, you know, but it's still there. It's
[01:29:52] Host: still always, even though everything else using these concepts.
[01:29:56] Guest: Yeah. Flux, I was thinking of thought the last few days about a friend. Well, you know, we don't talk to each other anymore. You know, something happened. Um, you know, so technically you could say, well, we're not friends anymore. Um, and I was, you know, interested in your idea of actually reaching out and talking to it.
[01:30:17] Not because I actually want to rekindle us catching up, um, and hanging out together because I don't actually think that would work as the people we are now, but we spent quite a few years going through some really beautiful. Stuff together. And there was a deep love formed, and I feel like, um, it doesn't need to be odd at all.
[01:30:39] Like that love that we shared in that period of time is still dear in my heart. And I have a love for him, even though I definitely wouldn't love to spend time with him now. Um, but I feel sometimes we flip between that concept of love and hate, you know, it's like, well, if we don't love someone anymore, we hate them.
[01:31:05] Or, you know, maybe not that dramatic. Um, but you know, there's a feeling of not love. We'll either love someone or we not love someone, um, where if we've loved someone, why can't we always hold that? Like, just because present. So for future self doesn't feel that tape love for the meaningful Pasa. So that love still exists, you know, and it doesn't need to be something that, you know, just, and then there's the other side of that, that just because past self love that person doesn't mean we have to suffer through an unpleasant relationship in the moment now, but it
[01:31:50] Host: does mean that it's possible to love them in this moment.
[01:31:53] And even if past self didn't love them, it's still possible to touch the space of love with them. And you can pretty much anyone, even someone that you're driving that you look at across from in the light. So you've got no idea. You get a glimpse into their story of all their cinema. Yeah. That can be a space for love, or even that person, that honks.
[01:32:15] Are you on the road? Well, I had a great,
[01:32:18] Guest: um, a great experience yesterday when I was walking through the shopping center with my kids. Um, I could see this lady looked like she was having a tough time. Um, and she sort of looked at me and I just gave her like a really big loving smile and I saw her eyes sort of widen up and then she smiled back out, um, and kept walking off with a smile on her face.
[01:32:41] And my son said to me, he's like, dad, why do you smile at him? And I sort of explained to, I'm like, well, why, why shouldn't we smile at people? Why shouldn't we, you know, when we look at someone, why shouldn't we share a bit of our love with them? You know, there's no angle, there's no, you know, after this happens, it's just like in this moment, I see you.
[01:33:06] And I'd much prefer to smile at you and share a bit of my love to you rather than ignore you, or rather than frown at you and walk away. Um, and I actually, I don't know, I sort of felt like quite chuffed at that was something that my son noticed about. Well, I felt I'm like, yup, that might not be something that he really thinks about a lot now, but maybe in 10 years from now, he's like, ah, shit, I get
[01:33:35] Host: it.
[01:33:36] He'll be smiling at people. And that will have a flow on effect. Exactly. Like what we said about the wind and the rain and everything. It's interesting. These ripples into it's
[01:33:44] Guest: beautiful. Like you can't, you know, you think about the smallest seed, the smallest seed can still growing to, you know, the most amazing trees.
[01:33:54] Um, and I think about, you know, so often still even now I'll be going through an experience. So thinking, and then something my parents said to me 40 years ago comes into my head and only now do I understand it, but it's like, you know, there's waste and we get not just from our parents, but other friends or people in their lives.
[01:34:18] They plant seeds that actually weren't meant for five-year-olds. I
[01:34:23] Host: get that all the time. I get that through the podcast when I'm having these chats, things come back later on that it's like, ah, that's like, I thought I got what that guy, man, but now it's like a whole new thing. And then it'll happen again a couple of years later.
[01:34:37] And that same from that initial seed, from that conversation, like it's probably happening right now. There's a few seeds that is this kind of
[01:34:46] Guest: sir beautiful, like Emma and I, like, we talk about that a lot. So for instance, past pole bought a book that he wasn't interested in. So, you know, Paul from 10 years from then we'll pick the book up and be like, oh fuck, this is exact book I need to read right now.
[01:35:04] Um, and it's a really a, you know, it's even another beautiful level of self-love is realizing that, um, doing things that, you know, future. Oh, past poll would have enjoyed, like I went past this place that, you know, there's a state among a pub, probably didn't even say it. Right. Um, it's just at an ovary. So, but anyway, when I was a kid, they used to do a cartoon of it like a weekly Carter.
[01:35:31] And I absolutely loved it. I used to spend hours staring at these patterns, um, and always wanting to go to this place because they built like the real building based on the cartoon. And, you know, I hadn't thought about that for 30 odd years. And I was driving back from Sydney for work and I saw the sign for it and I was tired and I couldn't be bothered a lot.
[01:35:52] Well, I'm not really interested in that. And I'm like, y'all not, but little pole, little pole love that you should take him there. And so I turned off, uh, went there and I went and sat at the bar and drank his rasa Coke. But the coolest part was I could feel like ten-year-old pole. Running around this place, losing his fucking mind, like screaming and yelling.
[01:36:18] Oh my God. Look at this. Look at that. And it was my God. It was a really beautiful feeling. Cause I always, Todd I'd always disinterested, but I could feel ten-year-old pole having an absolute bowl. And, and that was sort of when I come up with these like idea in my mind, I call like paying it backwards, you know?
[01:36:39] So stuff that our little selves didn't get to do at the tiny children yet letting her in giving this gift to our inner children. And it's like, you didn't get it, but I can give it to you now. And it might not mean anything to us now. We might be totally disinterested in it, but Allina. So like any child absolutely loves it.
[01:37:03] And you know, I think there's, um, there's a lot of room in our lives for that sort of stuff
[01:37:10] Host: as well. I've been looking at the future one as well. Yeah. I mean the inner one, I mean, I took some inspiration from that story. You've told me before. And I, I even last night I was spending some time in Clifton hill, which is where I grew up.
[01:37:22] And I visited my old kindergarten where my mom first took me and I felt so abandoned. Like she was just going to leave me there forever with all these randoms. And you know, then they force you to go to sleep together in that room with your little blankies and stuff. It's like, why do I go, want to go to, I don't want to go to sleep.
[01:37:37] What's going on here? I feel like I'm in prison or like military camp anyways. Um, I've been looking at the future and I've been like looking at all right, who is Michael as a character and what would he want to study now? What does he want to deepen his knowledge into? And what's that person gonna, how's that person going to appreciate my movements now in this, when in investing in this kind of a space.
[01:38:04] In order to, um, you know, motivated by what I feel like my wiser elder self would want. Yeah. So it's an interesting space to play in looking from things in, from things from that frame. So we've kind of danced around, you know, and all that is a sense of presence as well. Even though we are talking about these different parts of our being, you know, you can go, we can go rotate with the whole time thing, but let's clap you.
[01:38:34] I
[01:38:35] Guest: actually, I think it was today and I, I don't know why the thought come up. Um, but I was having a chuckle to myself thinking about, you know, um, you, myself and rolling. As like always it's like, you know, in our seventies, you know, with like really long, I mean, I've already got crane stuff, but you know, like with crazy long gray beads and our long gray hair, and just sort of like allowing my mind to sort of like wander a bit of like that, the presence and, you know, that's that energy in that sense of, of how we bait, um, just like these
[01:39:17] Host: awesome
[01:39:20] Guest: awesomely magical, like old wizards, like sitting around, you know, like laughing probably about the stuff that we're doing now or how we are now.
[01:39:30] Um, and, and that was a really beautiful thought, you know, like that was, um, yeah, that was really fun to sort of like, just slip my mind sort of like playing that and picture us looking like really cool and like, yeah, like, um, Uh, like Gandalf's yeah. They're now robes
[01:39:53] Host: a picture in that maybe around a fire of some sort.
[01:39:56] Yeah. Just kind of like, just, yeah, just with everyone's own uniqueness. That's been deepened with the beauty of time and I
[01:40:06] Guest: saw deep laughter on our faces. I'm picturing
[01:40:09] Host: laughter as well.
[01:40:10] Guest: Yeah. Laughter maybe, um, how much of a rush we might feel like we're in at times in this moment in 2000
[01:40:20] Host: being able to laugh back at things, but you don't feel like it's sometimes in the crux of it,
[01:40:25] Guest: but I could almost feel like our outer selves, almost like putting a hand on your shoulders, paying lights or fellows light.
[01:40:33] Host: Well, I'm thinking I've got an idea. I reckon this could be a part of a series that we're doing and we could maybe even put a hand on our shoulders right now. And we could even maybe pause this chat. Yep. And pick it up, you know, in a little while. It sounds like reflect back to where we are right now in a way that would be pretty.
[01:40:53] Yeah. Yeah. I dunno if that was an abrupt way to kind of end things, but I'm just thinking why batteries might be, be at low and stuff.
[01:41:02] Guest: That sounds
[01:41:02] Host: like a good balance
[01:41:03] setting.
[01:41:05] Guest: Well, and then maybe we can take it quick. So, all right. When you said that the first thought that come into my head was I'd like my future self in that conversation to be able to reflect back and say that I was further along the path with my relationship with being connected to my body.
[01:41:24] So I'm just putting that out there. Crumbs. Yeah. So hopefully future self is listening and we got that.
[01:41:30] Host: Yup. Yup. It's a future self. Once you, what you're saying to your future self, let me clarify that. There's going to be a deeper connection to your body next time you meet or something,
[01:41:41] Guest: or, um, I think maybe looking, thinking about it, I'm making a commitment to future shelf that between now with
[01:41:50] Host: gentleness
[01:41:52] Guest: and when he sits down to do this, that I will have that my current self and myself in between those moments will have been deepening the relationship with feeling of the body and stretching and moving and yeah.
[01:42:07] Host: Yep. Yep. Cool. I feel like I need to make a commitment now as well. I'm just not sure what it is. It's not coming to me right away, but it could be around pressure. Yeah. That's I reckon it would be about just continue, continuing to really embody and try to deepen the sense of love and, um, yeah. Coming back into the idea of just working on the basics.
[01:42:29] Good food, good sleep, good friends, you know, the exercise and. Clearing the mind space through meditative processes. I think that's all like community and self level Latin entangled together without the pressure. So
[01:42:47] Guest: it's everything, it's just everything. Yeah. But without that
[01:42:50] Host: pressure. So I think that wraps things up pretty well.
[01:42:54] Sounds good, brother, sending a loving breeze of gratitude in your direction. Thank you so much for sharing space with us here and now. And if you want some more information about our guests, you can head over to today, dream.com and check it. Check out the episode section on the page. Um, also if you're someone that's interested in deepening your practice of presence, if you want to work together with someone to structure a spiritual practice, whether it's an existing one or a new one.
[01:43:31] And if you're looking to build consistency is define your ambition. And recalibrate your trajectory in a way that's more in line with wholeness and in a way that contributes and participates more fully in the emergent world story. And it's blossoming, then feel free to get in touch because I'm taking on a small handful of one-on-one clients, spiritual friends.
[01:43:56] Um, and I'd love to speak to you if you did enjoy this episode and you felt like you got something out of it, feel free to share it with your community. And if you feel like there's anyone in particular that could benefit from the space shed today, uh, I would really appreciate if you'd pass it on to them and I'm sure they would too.
[01:44:15] And yeah, I'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you again, my friend and be well.