Success: catalysts, perspectives, and new experiences
Success has so many factors to it -- from personal catalysts to perspectives that affect it and experiences that bring about that success. As we try to attain the level of success we want, we see how the things in our lives become catalysts to success. Success bubbles up in between the cracks where you're not looking, so it pays to constantly evolve your perspectives. As we experience new situations, we are able to start finding our way to the path of success. In this podcast episode, Brad Rushing and I talk about success.
Show Notes Links:
Learn more at:
Full Podcast Transcription:
Success: catalysts, perspectives, and new experiences
===
Brad Rushing
===
[00:00:00] Host: Hey, welcome back to the tonight during our podcast, where we look at what cultivating the practice of presence in our lives feels like as well as explore conversational space around how we may be able to fully or more fully participate in the blossoming of the emergent world story together. So today's episode is with Brad rushing and it's around success.
[00:00:27] So yeah, I got really attracted to Brad's. Perspective once I kind of, I came across him in the YouTube sphere and I just found myself diving into a rabbit hole of what felt like profound truth, being spoken in a very unique way, uh, from a very unique character. So I thought I would see if you'd be willing to jump on the show for a chat.
[00:00:54] And he said, yes. So tell you a little bit about Brad now. John Bradley rushing is a cinematographer based in LA. He was born and raised in huge. And he has shot many music videos and commercials, as well as several notable feature films, including cook country. He's actually won the MTV video music award for best cinematography, which is pretty cool.
[00:01:21] So yeah, have a beautiful, um, time, I guess, with this conversation, it was an interesting moment that we ended up talking and there was some interesting synchronicities at play within my own life that emerged directly after the conversation. So there are definitely some lessons in here around success, what that looks like, what that means, like what that means to you.
[00:01:45] Sorry. And also, I kind of hope that you walk away from listening to this with more questions and answers. I know I certainly did. And it's helped, uh, just through my own contemplative practice to think about and explore these ideas in my heart and in my mind, Anyways, he's in chat with Brad. I hope you love it.
[00:02:10] Connects to the state of presence with one another before we start. Yeah. So invite you to close your eyes, everyone listening out there and you, you too, Brad, everyone just close your eyes and let's just take a moment to just pause and as an open invitation to take a deep inhale in, see if you can do this as slow as naturally possible.
[00:02:41] And whenever it is that you reached the peak pause for a moment before exhaling, just as gracefully, feel free to pause at the bottom. And let's repeat this process through to three times.
[00:03:47] And it's an open invitation just to feel into any subtle differences from. A few moments ago when we began to breathe in this conscious way
[00:04:20] and on your next exhale, feel free to gently open your eyes as we take off on this, uh, shared experience with bread.
[00:04:34] Yeah. So I think a nice place to begin. I'm just, yeah. This idea of success and what it means to be successful, I think can. Sometimes lead us into a state of thinking about the future rather than being present with what's the next best thing to do or not to do. Um, and I feel like that almost hinders our path in some way and this, and what is success even anyways, because there's this idea of like that goalposts changing throughout our lives and, you know, the reality of things looking quite different to what we imagined most of the time.
[00:05:30] So I guess, I don't know if there's anything come up for you with those two kind of ponderings or wonderings.
[00:05:38] Guest: Well, my point of departure. Would be to quote something, a friend of mine, uh, Erica Warnick recently said in her own, uh, really terrific film, courage series of interviews in the latest one, she talks about how, you know, your goals and the things that you want, uh, really all about how you think you're going to feel when you get them.
[00:06:01] And, and it's, it's so true, whether it's whether that applies to career goals or vacations or people you want to spend time with. Um, it's, it's, uh, it really is kind of, I think the fundamental guiding principle behind why we want the things, you know, I wanted to be rich because of how it will make me feel, or I want, you know, to buy this particular car or this particular guitar, because when I had that, all these cool things will happen, then I'll be happy.
[00:06:38] And, um, You know, I've had some really great successes in my career, um, on paper that, uh, you know, if you, if you look at the bullet points on the CV, it can be mighty impressive. And you know, when I'm talking to younger filmmakers, in fact, I talked to one recently who, you know, was kind of looking at, you know, th the agent and the publicist and, and, and the MTV award.
[00:07:09] And, you know, some of the projects I'd worked with, and she says, I want all of those things. And I explained that having had all of those things, they, they really didn't lead where I had hoped them to lead, you know, to my, to my mind, those were never the objectives. They were jumping off points. They, they, I thought they would be a catalyst to bigger and better things.
[00:07:35] And. I think that popular culture and the theology guide us to believe that that, that that's what those are, is that there are gateways to Shangri-La that you get an agent and they're going to grow your career. And it's off to the races. And as much as at this point, I intellectually know that that's just really not true.
[00:08:02] I still, you know, I still hope Springs eternal. I'm still, I'm still looking for that magic elixir. And I trip myself up from time to time. And, uh, you know, because you, you, you, you pedal and your pedal and your hustle and you have your highs and you have your lows and you just think, man, you know, one of these days it's going to pay off and it's just, you know, I'm going to coast and it's going to be terrific.
[00:08:24] And, um, one of the things that I've, I've come to learn a bit late in life, I think is that I think some of the most fulfilling. Parts when I reflect on what's most meaningful are not those highlights, but what happens in between those highlights, the friends that I make, the trips that I go on to shoot the movies, the experiences that I have.
[00:08:53] Um, and, and also the other things, you know, uh, like a couple of years ago, my buddy Sean P Janina, who also has, uh, a terrific film, courage series of interviews. Um, and we've done a lot of films together, but he and I went on a location, uh, in, in Louisiana and we thought, well, we're going to be stuck there a long time.
[00:09:13] And, you know, let's bring our guitars and you know, it, it really ended up reigniting my, my passion for music and into, and it's, it's just amazing. It's, you know, you really focus on those goals that you set, you focus on those things that you did. Equate success, but I think it quite sucks. I think success bubbles up in between the cracks where you're not looking.
[00:09:40] And I think success manifests in, in, in ways that, that you have not put labels on. Mm
[00:09:49] Host: Hmm. That's a beautiful way of looking at things. And I guess, yeah, I guess just imagining reflecting back on your life, when you're at your death bed, they're the kind of moments like sharing, sharing some music with a friend, picking up a few guitars and then reigniting that passion for playing, um, or for being in that space.
[00:10:06] They're the kind of things that, yeah, they're, they're a bit more, um, they seem like they're a bit more meaningful than what you had previously imagined and, um, yeah, it's interesting. What you shared is a couple of points that, that come up. Uh, you mentioned that there's this idea of this imagined feeling into the future of, of, you know, the reason behind whatever you want.
[00:10:28] Um, It's something came up for me. I've got a, I've got a little boy and he was watching a movie called the three ninjas. I don't know if you've heard of it. I haven't three niches kickback. You what's number two before hotline. And he's now got this ambition of becoming a ninja because he thinks it's really, really cool.
[00:10:48] And he's like, I kind of want to be like them and I want to have this feeling of being cool. So it's interesting. How, and what came up for me was this idea of, I don't know if cause the right word, but everyone's got their own kind of, it seems unique, um, um, experiences at and points of view on, you know, what is in a way or what, what fits for them in the way that they want to be and want.
[00:11:13] And, um, you know, there what, how their identity is formed, I guess. And it seems that we kind of move into these kinds of directions and a lot of the times. Our identity is tied up in that. Have you found that to be the case in your experience?
[00:11:29] Guest: Oh, I, I would, I would absolutely say that. That's true. And, um, I, I think, I think there's an abundance of lessons available in our life experiences.
[00:11:41] If we have the humility to stand down and pay attention, and I'm going to be the first to raise my hand and say, that's a challenge for me. I don't want to, just because I declare that I don't want people to think, oh, well, you got that shit figured out. It's easy for you to, well, it's definitely not. What are you, what do you mean
[00:11:58] Host: by that?
[00:12:00] Guest: Well, let me, let me tell you the first thing I was going to tell you first and then, and then, and then I'll step over to that. The first thing I was going to tell you, because I think there's a lot of, we can, there's a lot of information about who we are deep in our core. If we examine some of those impulsive ambitions, like you're talking about your son wanting to be a ninja, you know, when I was a little bit.
[00:12:22] I just ate up science fiction. I loved it and I wanted to be an astronaut. And I thought that was the greatest thing. And I had an astronaut toys and a twice space helmet. And I, you know, I thought it was blasting off and going into exotic places and me meeting green people with ants. And I, um, I, I thought that was fricking fantastic, but when I became old enough to realize that it would probably have to join the military and do grueling training and undergo, you know, extreme physical discomfort and never meet the green girls, I thought, well, well, maybe not, but it wasn't that I just chucked it off to the side of the road, you know, I thought about, well, what was it?
[00:13:07] I mean, if that's really what it is, what about what I thought it was, was calling to me. It was the imagination. It was, it was the, you know, this whole other world, this, you know, these completely different people who, you know, apart from giggers alien, you know, a lot of them are benevolent. And, you know, we have this opportunity to learn and experience other cultures.
[00:13:37] Um, you know, it was the adventure, it was the storytelling, it was the, um, going into a brave new place going into the unknown. And when I examined that aspect, I realized that I had in my life chosen a lot of those things. As, as you know, a filmmaker, you do things that so many people will say, that's a terrible idea.
[00:14:01] It's a terrible risk and you are freelance. You don't have job security. So from week to week and month to month, what's going to happen. And I realized in retrospect, That I took on so many of the things that, that, that in my imagination entailed being that fictional idea of, of a S a space traveler. And I go to other worlds, you know, I shoot science fiction.
[00:14:28] I shoot period pieces that take place in other countries. And other times I've traveled all over the world and experienced other cultures. So it's kind of fascinating. It, it, I think it tells you a lot about yourself and, you know, maybe 20 years from now, you'll have that conversation with your son and, and, and you'll know him better as he grows into his adulthood.
[00:14:52] And you'll see, oh, I see, you know, I see the threads that go back, you know, to what fascinated you about that. And then, and then, and then just to touch briefly, we can, we can expand on those, but you were asking about the humility thing it's to let go of what you think you want. It's, you know, especially when you're as.
[00:15:14] Ambitious and committed as I am, but does to achieve some of these goals really requires this tenacity and this laser focus that, that sometimes it's hard to let go. It's hard to know when to stand down. And, and I think that there's also for lack of a better word, a sense of humiliation that, that, well, I didn't get what I want and I, I don't know if I ever will.
[00:15:41] So I think that that requires some effort and it requires some, uh, you know, for me some conversations with myself and some reality checks. And, but I think there's some value in that. I think there's something on the other side. And part of that is those lessons that I was talking to you. Yeah. That
[00:15:58] Host: makes a lot of sense.
[00:15:59] I guess the friction point for me is a sense of that, um, against this idea of, um, It seems like things increase in difficulty or, or, um, turbulence when you're getting to a certain, um, inflection point. And then, you know, you, you push through that and, and you move into that. And then it seems like, um, you know, there's another door on the other side, and then you've kind of made it in some sense, um, to some, to some new space, even if it may not be the Shangri-La you mentioned earlier, but it seems like there's this, this, this kind of, okay.
[00:16:36] Is it time to let this one go? Cause it's getting a bit more difficult or it doesn't feel quite right? Or is it time to kind of easiest really time to really double down? This seems like it's one way or the other, right.
[00:16:49] Guest: I say, standing down isn't the same as giving up, you know, I I've found that there are things in life that the harder I pushed, the more resistance they present.
[00:17:00] And then I see other people, you know, who just. They don't, they don't push like that. They don't drive, they don't bash their head into the wall repeatedly, and then there's an ease to their success. And I can't say that I understand that, but I also can't deny it. I, I see it. Um, and, and again, to me, this is, this is a matter of humility.
[00:17:21] Am I willing to say, you know, the thing that I thought would work is not doing what I believed it would do, and you know, let's step back, let's stand down. You know, if, if my objective is still important to me, I, that doesn't mean I'm giving up and, you know, sometimes I think you have to let go. I was reflecting not too long ago about the greatest catalysts for success in my career.
[00:17:50] And so many of them. And maybe most of them were not things that I brought into being by sheer force of will. And I find that that when I try to apply that sheer force of will, oftentimes the resistance becomes exponential. I can't explain it. There's something to be said for ease. There's something to be said from letting go.
[00:18:14] And again, letting go doesn't mean giving up and, you know, for a religious person, perhaps that means, you know, handing it to your higher power. I'm not religious, but that whole principle of not, you know, of not trying to force it by will and just surrendering to the dynamics that surround you. Maybe there's something to that I'm, you know, humble enough.
[00:18:40] Host: I think there definitely is. Have you heard of Wu Wei.
[00:18:44] Guest: In Daoism,
[00:18:47] Host: it's this idea of the, kind of what you were speaking to just kind of doing things with the least amount of effort, but not no effort, just the least amount that you need to get the things done. So it's a sense of really finding that balance point, um, in life and allowing the flow of things through, you know, it's, it's fascinating.
[00:19:06] Um, yeah, I, I feel like there's this, this balance going on. Cause it seems like willpower is called for in certain times. So there's this like, you know, this constant balance between, um, allowing things to flow and, um, you know, moments where you may be doing new step into things, but letting things go when the time is right and not forcing things definitely seems like a huge, um, catalyst to success.
[00:19:31] Guest: Yeah. Yeah. One of the, one of the things that, you know, that, that I'm, I'm really learning is that, is that whole idea of, um, You know, just, just stepping back and because I think sometimes our strengths work against us, you know, the fact that you could be tenacious, the fact that you can be committed, you know, that kinda becomes that can become stubbornness.
[00:20:00] It can become intractability. That's true as well. Yeah. W w where along the spectrum, it transforms from, you know, beneficial to harmful is, is kind of unclear, especially if you have that dog had commitment to something, because you know, there's a lot of obstacles you plow through and you just get used to plowing and then, you know, one day you realize, wow, I'm, I'm in this mode.
[00:20:24] That's not beneficial at the time.
[00:20:26] Host: Mm, I feel like I have almost the opposite, um, um, dynamic happening where it's a sense of, um, almost always in that state of allowing, I guess, so not always, but a lot of the time in this more of a passive sense, um, flowing with things, and I think a bit of extra willpower on my end would, would go a long way.
[00:20:47] So it's very interesting how there's like, and then, like you mentioned them, there's people out there that are really, um, you know, heavy on the willpower and can push through things and have that sense of, um, I'm not sure if discipline is the right word, but maybe diligence. And then, um, stepping back is, is actually what's most appropriate for them in that moment.
[00:21:07] Um, because like you said, that our strengths do have the potential for working against us. If we don't switch things up every now and then we'll play the other side a little bit.
[00:21:17] Guest: Well, I think, I think with so many things, it's all about balance. Yeah. You know, like what, what you expressed and, um, I have been so kind of focused on one goal for so long that I feel I lost sight of other things.
[00:21:32] Um, you know, and I'm kind of examining my life and I feel it's, it's very peculiar because some aspects of who I am are kind of locked in my teens and twenties because I've, I've neglected that personal growth I've, you know, been driving so hard at this one goal. And, and again, it, it was with open eyes to start out.
[00:21:57] And I said, when I get to that place where I want to be, and I'll know it, when I get there, then I'll bring this stuff back. I'll make time for these things. When, you know, John Lennon famously says, life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. And I think even the most successful people it's, you know, probably doesn't happen in the way that you think it would, even if you're pleased and delighted.
[00:22:26] Um, and so there's just a lot of surprise and there's a lot of, you know, it's like, it's like, you're a kid and you get a Christmas present and you think it's going to be one thing. And it's another. And even if that other thing is something really great because you had your heart set. The first thing you, maybe in that moment you're crushed, but then you come to appreciate it and feel like, well, that was silly.
[00:22:49] This is even better. So,
[00:22:51] Host: yeah. And then I guess it's like what you're talking to before has something to do with this idea of letting go of the first president and opening up to the next one and that, that kind of, that transition between those spaces. And it seems what comes to mind for me is a tree. And like, you're going on this, this hard, um, forward journey or deep down into the earth as a root.
[00:23:15] And then that root being, you know, now it's okay to build some more roots or maybe move towards the trunk and, and, and, you know, and flourish in a different way. Um, but you've got this solid route now in place from that experience of what, what you have been through.
[00:23:30] Guest: Yeah. Well, I think that's a great analogy and I would extend that analogy by saying that as that route, you don't know what's in that soil.
[00:23:38] Are there rocks. Is there, um, an aquifer, uh, is there no aquifer, how deep are you going to have to go? And I think there's comfort for all of us in having a familiar context to our paradigm. You know, again, if you talk about people of faith, there's a structure, there's an order. There's a purpose. Um, if you talk about people who set goals, there are milestones, there is, there are results.
[00:24:08] There is an end payoff. And I think as humans who are mortal and not guaranteed moment to moment, I mean, we're, we're really untethered if we think about it in the scariest possible way, unless we are able to. Let that go. And I know some people can, but you know, me being who I am and being a very kind of logical and goal-oriented person, it's, it's hard.
[00:24:37] It's, it's, it's difficult to surrender your structure, to surrender your context, to be that Rouge going into the ground and saying, I don't know, you know, show me it's a, it's a completely different mode. And I feel, you know, there are some things that have happened in my life this year, especially that have really, you know, unmoored some of my security and, and it's put me in a, in a, this precarious place where, you know, I just didn't have those reliable landmarks.
[00:25:18] And, and so I could either panic and flounder. I think I did for a little bit, but then I came to this serenity and realized that the, when I started being quiet and paying attention that were lessons to be learned and there were evolutions to undertake and I realized that I could come out the other side of this, a different and better person.
[00:25:45] And, and in some strange way, closer to the things I really want, because remember it wasn't the astronaut that I wanted to be. It was those things about being an astronaut or that I imagined about being an astronaut.
[00:26:01] Host: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I can, I can really relate, uh, with what you've just shared this, I wrote this five-year, uh, it was like a five year.
[00:26:11] A dream plan or something. I don't know, whatever you want to call it, but it was like how I envision all the aspects of my life in five years from now. And I revisited that was maybe three years ago and I revisited it recently and it seems like everything has come true, but in totally different way, you know, like in a way that it's not how I had pictured, but it's in, like you mentioned in some strange way, I'm still that I'm still that astronaut.
[00:26:35] I'm still the reason for being that astronauts and the surrounding kind of feelings. A lot of them are actually have come true. So I think there's a sense, sometimes we get a bit foggy on how far we have come, because we're looking at where we're going all the time and the sense of like, um, you know, how beautiful things are right now.
[00:26:57] And like, like you said, just kind of letting go of the rest for a moment. There's a real power, strength and peace that comes from that space. And I think once we, once we can do that, even if it's only for a moment, I think that fills us up to be, you know, to help. Um, for me, it comes down to like being able to help others more than I think in that space, like what my dreams kind of, um, uh, drawn in automatically on their own.
[00:27:29] So it's almost like you don't even need to worry about it in some ways. Um, it's, it's like if you can, if you can tap into that, that, that space of letting go, like you mentioned, I think there's a sense of, um, You know, the illusion of control that we have. And that seems to dissolve a bit more once we, once we can let go.
[00:27:49] And, and, um, because we're really not as in control as we think we are. Um, yeah, it's, it's uh, and moments like the, like the, the, the ones you referenced to this CR kind of a proof of that, you know, and like you said earlier where you could go at any moment and so-called everything around us or the people or the things everything's, you know, um, everything can disappear at any moment.
[00:28:16] We just have this, it seems as humans, we have this sense of, um, it's like, I think of it as patenting. I don't know what the right word is, but it's like, um, we get used to sitting on a chair. So after a while, we don't actually feel our bumps sitting on the chair. It's like this automation that takes place.
[00:28:33] Yeah.
[00:28:34] Guest: Well, one of the things I was thinking about when you were talking was, um, I remember when I was a kid and I was learning to ride a bicycle. And I remember fumbling with it and how awkward and trying to balance and, and, you know, not only balance, but then get some forward momentum. And then my dad would come out and you'd hold the bike up and I could get on it and he would walk out and I'm like, okay, I'm cool.
[00:28:58] I'm cool. So as long as I had that, that structure of my father, both physically and emotionally supporting me, I could do it. And, and, but I knew that if he went away, I couldn't do it except one day he let go and I didn't know, and I was pedaling. And so, because I still had that faith and, um, and it was an interesting lesson.
[00:29:28] And it works kind of metaphorically too, because, um, my mom passed away in 2011 and my dad passed away in 2018 and I was very close to them. And one of the traumas I expressed to you was losing that and I it's such a profoundly different paradigm and it's so incredibly difficult, but I've been working on this project recently.
[00:29:52] And I remember when I was very young because, because I was extremely shy, my mother said, Bradley, always ask for what you want, because the worst thing that will happen is they'll tell you now. And as simple as that sounds to a lot of people, it can be. Right confrontational to me. I don't know. It's confrontational for other people too.
[00:30:13] It's not, not just me, but in my head, I'm the only one on the planet. But anyway, um, so with this particular project I've been working with, I've been asking some incredibly unlikely people, the kind of people that if you told someone, they'd tell you how crazy it is and talk you out of it. And by and large, they're participating and they're enthusiastic and they're complimentary.
[00:30:37] And this is something that I don't have a lot of confidence. And because I kind of have, this is one of the things I had left along the roadside that between the pandemic and my evolution, I've gone back and collected and you know, I'm nurturing it again. But
[00:30:53] Host: the main lesson.
[00:30:56] Guest: No the point, the point that I'm getting at?
[00:30:58] No, no, no, no. This project is thing that I've I've recollected, but the point is that even though my parents are gone, it's kind of the cause of her advice is that same thing as my dad holding the bike, you know, she's not here physically, but she's that wind beneath my wings. Those things that she said are still guiding me as though she's right there beside me and said, call that person right.
[00:31:24] That person, you know, the, the worst thing that they're going to do is tell you no, and I hear my, when I talk sometimes, you know, people will say something and I'll respond with this ridiculous witticism and I hear my dad's voice cause it's his sense of humor. So, you know, again, it's, it's, it's like what you're saying is if we try to force things, if I tried to intentionally memorialize the.
[00:31:52] I think it would be challenging and uncomfortable. I think, you know, what I'm learning is I have to understand the difference between persistence and forcing and projecting because, because there's an element here in what you're talking about and in learning to ride a bike. And in my mom's influence quietly, as I ask these people for things and they surprise me by agreeing, and this is kind of the learning space I'm in at the moment.
[00:32:28] Um, this is I'm I'm, I'm just an input mode. I'm trying not to define it. I'm trying not to project on it and just trying to experience it and grow.
[00:32:37] Host: It sounds like you're in a beautiful space. Like, and that seems like, how could your mother not be with you? How could your father not be with you there?
[00:32:46] They're like within you in like you, like, you're so beautifully articulated that we do through these different elements. And it's, you know, that's such a beautiful thing because in a sense, um, You know, things are gone, but the moments that you've shared with those things and people, people can come and go, but those moments and those impressions, they ripple out into the rest of your being for the rest of your life and your moments that you share with other people do the same.
[00:33:15] So it's, it's such an interesting space. When you were thinking, when you talking about riding a bike, I was thinking about my own experience learning and I actually, I grew up without a father and, um, I didn't have that support network. And recently I've been exploring what it means like to have that, find that within myself and maybe ask for, help myself with the people around me.
[00:33:38] Build that out. I just remember riding my bike and every time I wanted to stop, I would have to run into a fence because I couldn't reach the ground. So I just remember so many times getting a sore head and in a strange way, I feel like, um, that's, what's been happening with a lot of my projects is the sense of, um, not really knowing what I'm doing and then running into fences and then figuring out a better way eventually.
[00:34:02] And as that process goes on, I'm getting a little bit taller and my feet are beginning to touch the ground. So, um, yeah, it's very beautifully. Um, um, you you've taken me back to that, so I appreciate that. And thank you so much for sharing as well, because, um, that's huge what you've just expressed and it sounds like you are going through quite an evolution at the moment.
[00:34:25] Guest: Yeah. Yeah. Well, is it something that you just said is very interesting because you're talking about asking for help and, and. I can't speak for everybody, but I think a lot of people have a hard time asking for help. It's easy to help other people. I mean, I've, I, one of my dynamics that I found when I was examining, where I had gotten to in my life was that my intention was so much about selflessness.
[00:34:55] And that's not to say that I'm a completely selfless person. I'm just as human as anybody. And I have my own share of screw ups, but just in terms of being mindful and intentional, if I make the decision, if I'm, if I calculate it, I will more often than not choose to put somebody else's interests before my own.
[00:35:16] And, and, you know, that's one of those things where people say, you've got to learn to say no and, you know, put on your oxygen mask before you put on somebody else's. Um, but when you become that person that people rely on, when you become that strength, there's almost like you don't feel, you have the luxury of weakness.
[00:35:38] You don't feel you have the luxury of being human that well, when I say you meet, I, uh, and so the whole idea of asking for help, cause I'm just so used to being that for other people is a bit alien and, and also too is, is, you know, it's easy to say, you know, I want to be an astronaut, help me be an astronaut, but you have to understand, you have to accept that.
[00:36:05] Well, that's not really what I want. So maybe I don't even know the question. Maybe it's help, but I don't know what I need you to help me with. And at least for me, what that has looked like. Is that, that great saying how do you eat an elephant? Do you know the answer to that?
[00:36:22] Host: Is it one piece at a time? Is that the one that's right.
[00:36:24] Guest: One bite at a time. And so rather than me looking for the macro answer of, whereas the map to Shangri-La, I'm looking at the smaller questions. I'm looking at my health. I'm looking at eating more intentionally and, and healthy. I'm looking at my mental health. I'm looking at my emotional health. I'm looking at the small things.
[00:36:49] I'm looking at what brings me joy. Not, not what do I think brings me joy, but what, because a lot of times the things that we think bring us joy because of like what Erica said about you, the things you want, you want, because of the way you think they'll make you feel. And then you've got them and you're like, oh, uh, they left the joy out.
[00:37:09] So it's, it's the things that actually bring you joy. And what are the. So same thing with people. You know, there's a lot of conversations, especially around social media, where some people talk about how awful their experience is. It is. And I think a lot of that is because of what's represented there.
[00:37:25] What do you let in you're the gatekeeper? What do you choose to have people and, and information that upsets you and, and I mean, look, it's, it's good to be challenged a little bit, but if you're challenged and aggravated and upset all the time, what's the point. Um, again, we, we come back to the whole balance thing, but I don't want to get sidetracked.
[00:37:48] This is all about asking for help. And I think that's one thing that probably every single one of us can be better at. I think most of us are probably a lot better at giving help than asking for help and to ask for help, which again, I'm not saying I'm good at I'm learning I'm in that process, but it requires humility because if, if, simply by asking for help, you have.
[00:38:13] Implicitly admit that you're not enough.
[00:38:17] Host: Yeah. Yeah. And that's a big thing to say that, you know, I can't do this on my own. There's a real, um, power in the sense of community and coming together, um, you know, a couple of minds are better than one or whatever that phrase is. And the sense of, um, joining together with like-minded people, especially in a time of such chaos at the moment and intensity, I think there's a strength in coming back and being, you know, with people that can support one another.
[00:38:53] And I find a real sense of peace in that as well, because a lot of the times, especially when it comes to things like, um, money and, um, security and safety, there's this sense of like, um, Yeah. Not, not, not feeling, not feeling completely there. And I think when you think of, you know, helping others and, um, being kind to others and supporting others and that being a reciprocal process, there's a real strength in that where all that other stuff doesn't matter as much because you've got it already because you've got, um, that shared community.
[00:39:33] And I think that's, what's coming up for me and also just some strange reason. And I'm not sure how this ties in, but I, I just was thinking about speed, the speed of things, and, um, kind of sitting in the speed of how things are unfolding for you because this, this idea of maybe one of the reasons why you feel like you might need support might be because the speed doesn't feel quite right, or how things are unfolding in on some level.
[00:40:04] Doesn't feel like it's the way it should. Yeah, I'm trying to think of how to express
[00:40:09] Guest: that. I wouldn't say it's not how I feel it should be. It's not how I expected it to be. And I feel like the foundations of a lot of things that I depended on evaporated, you know, my parents, as an example, I, I'm not so stupid to think that they would have been around forever, but it doesn't matter if somebody, you love lives to 99 or passes away at 20 it's too soon, you know, you're not ready for it.
[00:40:39] And, and it's, it's, I can't speak for anybody else, but for me, it's this most incredibly transformational paradigm. It's like I'm in a whole new world that I'm learning to live in because they had insinuated themselves. I'd never known a day of my life without them, you know? And, and granted, I, we lived in different states.
[00:41:01] But we would talk every day and they were a part of my life and they were a part of my awareness and they were a part of my support. I mean, I could, even, if I, anytime I was upset, if I had a problem, I could call them and it wasn't our way to discuss the problem, I suppose I could have. And I probably did, but more often than not, it was just the check-in.
[00:41:20] It was that connection. And hearing them say, oh, went to the grocery store and did a thing in the garden. And I'm somehow that made me feel better, you know, that, that being able to touch that and reconnect with that, that normalcy. Um, so, uh, that's an, you know, it's interesting. And you were also, you were talking about, you know, being part of a community.
[00:41:40] And I think that that's, that's something too, which, um, I, I'm always, I've always been intentional about what do I put into this world? I, I, my, my version of reality, I'm sorry. My version of morality is that every morning I have to wake up an answer for, to myself. For what I've done and am I okay with that?
[00:42:04] I'm okay. With the way I treated people, I don't feel like there's any kind of eternal judgment for me, but I want to treat people in a way that I feel good about myself, that I feel that I've done right by them. Um, and at the same time, you have to be open to what you receive from that community. And I think it's a mistake to project expectations on that.
[00:42:33] Uh, one of the, uh, one of the things that I'm exercising these days is just listening and paying attention and seeing what's there. Because I think if you, if you project onto it, you limit it, you exclude things, you, you, you demand it. It would be like, you know, going into a store and telling them what the price is going to be and what the specifics of the item are rather than seeing what they have to offer.
[00:42:57] I mean, there might even be something better than what you would. And I'll give you a little bit of a, an example. I was talking to my publicist the other day, who's in Australia, by the way. Um, uh, and, uh, for many years people have said I should do a podcast. And, um, I don't want to do an obvious podcast. It doesn't interest me at all to do one of those.
[00:43:20] Let's talk about cameras and lights, podcasts. Um, and so I really had to think of something that was kind of, that I could bring a unique perspective to and something that I don't feel is really present. And I finally conceived of a thing and those same people also have always said, I should monetize that.
[00:43:41] And, um, I'm resistant to monetizing my advice because I am very egalitarian and I don't want to create a barrier to access for anybody I'm resistant to that. I don't think it's, for me, it's fair or reasonable to suggest that these people. Money in our pockets are worthy of what I have to give. And these people who don't are not worthy, that doesn't work for me.
[00:44:06] I couldn't wake up feeling okay with myself. And so I kind of had this very rigid idea of what that looked like is that regardless of my own financial circumstances, I would stick by that. And when I was talking to the, um, the, uh, publicist, you know, we kind of went round and round, whether like, oh, well you could be on this platform or you could be on that platform.
[00:44:31] And I said, if it's behind a paywall, I'm not going to do it. I'm not, I'm not going to leave people out. And in one of the quieter moments, somebody suggested an auction that I kind of just pushed past because I was, I was in this mode of frustration, but then, then I circled back and somebody said, well, you know, what, if you accepted donations?
[00:44:51] And I thought, oh, well, okay. I mean, that's voluntary. That's not a prerequisite. And then there's this one person who I had kind of steamrollered said, well, that was kind of what I was trying to tell you. So, so there was a lesson there and that I couldn't hear, you know, I was going into the store telling them the way it was going to be instead of looking at the specials and, um, that's, you know, listening to the community, not projecting on it, not, and, and I, you know, I, I ride on people all the time about doing this and here I was doing it myself.
[00:45:25] Um, I make no pretenses of being perfect. At least I will always own up to that. And so I think that's the thing is, is that, you know, being the person in the world, you know, be, be the solution you want to see be the person you want to encounter, treat other people's sons and daughters, the way you would want your sons and daughters traded and their mothers and fathers and them.
[00:45:52] And, and then in terms of what. Receive be open because it, again, it may not be the thing that's on your shopping list and the thing that's on your shopping list may not be the right thing, you know, to quote the rolling stones. You can't always get what you want, but sometimes you'll find you get what you need.
[00:46:15] Hmm.
[00:46:16] Host: Yeah. What's this podcast is going to be about. Can you tell me a bit more about that?
[00:46:21] Guest: Um, I, yeah, I can tell you a little bit about it. Um, um, the concept is because I have mentored film students for decades and the same things come up again and again and again, and in that transition between school and work, there are these common things about how do you do a resume in the film industry?
[00:46:44] Because it's not like other industries, how do you network? Because most people in his life who are not freelance, maybe a handful of times in their life. Are looking for work and filling out applications, but as a freelancer, that's your life. I, I often tell people I'm professionally unemployed because I look for more work more than I actually work.
[00:47:07] That's what I do. My, and if you looked at my day, you'd be like, oh, that guy's professionally unemployed, he's hustling and networking. And, and you know, sometimes what that looks like is just hanging out and spending time with friends. You're putting in FaceTime and it's fun. And so people don't necessarily see that, but, but, you know, it's all, it's all got some intention.
[00:47:26] And, uh, you know, how, how do you live on a freelance income? What if you make a thousand dollars this month that you don't work for two months? So all of those things are things that they do not teach in film school. And by God, they. And I've, I've told instructors, this I've sat in on curriculum advisory boards and time.
[00:47:49] And again said, y'all should, if you can't do it as a class, then invite a guest, speaker, have a workshop, whatever. And it's just, it just falls down the drains. So the concept, the name, I think of the con the, of the podcast is shit. They don't teach you in film school, but should
[00:48:09] Host: Hmm. Yeah. What was that last part
[00:48:12] Guest: you're saying?
[00:48:13] Oh, and then they'll just be modules like I'll, you know, I'll do one on networking. I'll do. And also like what we just discussed. Agents, unions, publicist awards. Everybody thinks that that is the expressway to success. And it's just not. And so I want to examine that I want to talk about it. And, uh, I, I haven't got the format quite yet.
[00:48:36] My publicist said she would be happy to come and speak. I'm sure my agents would as well. I don't know if I want to make it that complex. There's also something to be said. You know, I give people this advice all the time. If you conceive of something, don't make it so complicated that you don't want to do it, that it becomes a burden.
[00:48:54] And so I have to examine that I have to consider what that looks like, but you know, all the same. I think this is something valuable. One of the things that's been joyful for me about those film courage interviews is that rather than me having a lot of these conversations over and over again, I say, just go watch that and then let me know what questions you have left.
[00:49:14] So if I, if I, if I do this podcast I'm done, I don't have to give people advice anymore. It's like, you go, there you go. There. You're, you know, you, you know, send you a diploma. Um, But it's, it's true. You find yourself having these conversations over and over again. I mean, one of the things that I always tell people is the only thing that's consistent in the film business is change.
[00:49:40] And it's true. It's it's the, the dynamic of the market changes. The technology changes the styles, you aesthetics. And as soon as you think you've got it figured out, you just, you just don't, it's now it's something else. And, and you have to, you adapt and you, you realize that that's the dynamic and you can, there's a, there's a place where you can be comfortable with that.
[00:50:02] Or at least some personality types can be comfortable with that. But you just have to realize it's never going to stop for you. It's never going to be like, oh, I got to figure it out. I'm going to coast a while because that's not how it works.
[00:50:15] Host: Yeah. It sounds like these lessons in the film industry directly applicable to what's happening with our lives at the moment.
[00:50:23] Yeah. It's never going to be that way where it's like, you've made it to this again, that Shangri-La you mentioned earlier, and now I'm just going to coast. It's like a continual game.
[00:50:33] Guest: It's a microcosm. You know, I go back to, I go back to my friend, Erica Wernick who has this terrific book called meant for this how to achieve your most impossible dreams.
[00:50:45] And, um, when I first read that book, it was very much about, well, how can I level up what pieces of this can I take to level up? Because you know, I've known her for a number of years and I've attended her seminars and she's so smart and she's just loaded with good advice and, and enthusiasm and charisma.
[00:51:07] So there's always some joy. But I've come back to it. I've I've I was reading the paper back and now I've been listening to the audio book and because I'm in a different place, it's landing very differently for me in the interim. I have advised, um, I have, um, recommended it to people who weren't in the film business.
[00:51:27] And I said, look, it's about reaching your dreams. And if they're not in the film business, if you want to be an entrepreneur or you want, you have some goal, I think that there are these tools and roadmaps, and because I'm in a different place, I'm hearing it, I'm hearing a whole different conversation. So the point that I'm getting at is I have experienced exactly what you're talking about that I think.
[00:51:52] I think anytime you have a conversation about goals and success and dreams and fulfillment and living your truest most authentic life, even if that's in a specific paradigm, even if you're talking about being a lawyer or an engineer or a florist, I think the dynamics that govern that process are universal.
[00:52:17] Host: Yeah. And you, you mentioned earlier this like personal evolution or this are a series of them, so it makes sense of, as you kind of go through that process that, you know, these distinct kind of lessons are going to hit you at different points and going to connect in different ways. And there's something.
[00:52:33] Yeah. I spoke to spoke to this point on a recent conversation with, um, with a guest Jiro Taylor on stories. And we were talking about kind of ancient stories in, you know, traditional people of the lands. Um, they have these stories that passed down from generation to generation for a reason and, and different parts of our, whatever at different parts of our process, we could hear the same story, but then get completely different lessons for it that are matched to where we're at and what we need to hear and what we can actually move on.
[00:53:06] They're like little signals or little
[00:53:08] Guest: gifts. Have you, have you seen the movie young Frankenstein? No. It's a Mel Brooks movie and it's a spoof on horror films. And, um, I first saw that movie when I was a little kid and there are some slapstick there's goofy faces. It was a funny movie. It was just a hilarious movie when I was a kid.
[00:53:31] And then I watched it later as an adult and it is loaded with subtext and innuendo and frankly, dirty jokes. I never hit me. And it was like this whole other mood. I was like, I was watching the same thing, but I was having such a different experience. And, you know, I express that just to reinforce what you're saying and also to tie it back in to what I was telling you that if, if you're open, like if I was expecting the same expense.
[00:54:06] That I remember from being a kid, I would have been disappointed, you know, because, because the goofy stuff wasn't as funny, but, you know, to be open to, to a thing to, I think there's something about, about, you know, being generous with your environment, being generous with your community, being generous with that person sitting across from you, that you are not projecting expectations.
[00:54:34] And I think if you open yourself up to listening and experiencing, rather than managing or manipulating or contriving to an end, I think, I think it can be a very transformational experience. And so that was just kind of my metaphor for that.
[00:54:55] Host: Yeah. That's exactly. I think that's, I think we've been kind of building through this space together and that's exactly like.
[00:55:02] That's it, that's a point that's a beautiful, like little, little point of, of like a little jam. I guess I was thinking about this this morning, this idea of letting go of expectations and kind of this, there's this idea in meditation when you're teaching it to students or when you're, when students come to our class of just letting go of expectations of what you, you know, what your ideal scenario would be, what is a satisfactory meditation sitting in a certain posture and being a certain way.
[00:55:33] And there's this idea of like, um, the connection between meditation and life, which I discussed in a previous podcast right before this one. And it's so it's so relevant right here as well, because it's like, um, exactly what we were talking about. It's like, it's not diff it's not bad to have those dreams as a child.
[00:55:53] I'm wanting to be an astronaut. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's, it's almost like that expectation brings about a lot of suffering and it also kind of stops us from realizing ways that we can actually bring that, that the essence of that, that dream into being. Yup.
[00:56:11] Guest: Um, I think as humans, we have a lot of baggage, you know, we're like that, you know, stereotypical rich person with, you know, this entourage full of carts and bags for the holiday weekend.
[00:56:26] And, you know, we're so busy packing and unpacking and sorting that, that we spend less time experiencing and being open. And, um, you know, I think that, uh, it's, it's just, it's just so important to try. And be present for things. And, uh, this is something I'm learning. I'm not speaking from wisdom. I'm not speaking from, you know, practiced experience.
[00:56:54] I'm speaking from somebody who's on this journey myself. Um, but you know, it's, it's especially imagine a creative there's that, that whole concept of, of creative block writer's block artist's block, I'm sitting there, I'm looking at a piece of paper and I'm just going insane because I can't fill it up.
[00:57:15] You know, I definitely know what you're talking about. And so we've, we struggle with that. We wrestle with that. And, um, there are entire books about managing. I had a lesson. When I was in art school, I went to the high school for performing and visual arts in Houston. One of the best experiences of my life, both because of what I learned and what I learned about myself and the friends I met, who are friends to this day and really powerful, meaningful, significant friends.
[00:57:49] And we had a lesson about artists block and a teacher. We had a piece of paper in front of us and she said, if you ever, if you ever have block and you're looking at the paper and you just don't know what to draw, just put a mark on it anywhere. Just put any mark on it. Don't think about what a mark, and then just keep going because that's either the right mark.
[00:58:15] Well, the wrong mark. And in seeing that, as that becomes apparent, it's going to lead you. To that voice that you're looking for. And so the thing that I see in that is, is when you are in that new space, if you're meditating and you're saying, let it all go and just have this, this, this void, that void is scary.
[00:58:43] If it, if it's a void, it lacks the unfamiliar. It's a void. It lacks my baggage. It's a void at lax, my Teddy bear and my favorite blanket. So it could be a scary space. It could be that blank paper that you've got to fill up, or it could be that medium that was sitting in front of me when my teacher was talking and it's a hundred percent pure potential.
[00:59:12] What if I look at it as potential instead of emptiness, it's infinite potential it's potential is proportional. Too it's emptiness. And so, again, that's, that's one of the things that I want to take on. I think our relationship with the world, our relationship with ourselves, our relationship with ideas and people is often predicated on the fundamental relationship that we create in our minds with it.
[00:59:49] So if, instead of that relationship being fear and absence and emptiness it's potential, well, what incredibly empowering capitalists that,
[01:00:05] Host: yeah, this is, this is really exciting me and making my heart smile actually, because there's this, it's kind of what I feel like the reason I, I started this podcast or at least where the podcast has evolved into would be a better way of putting it the sense of kind of. The, what I'm thinking is, or what I'm feeling into is your sense of what you've just expressed and that, um, that being like what's going on internally, this is only just my language, but what's going on internally being expressed, you know, on the outside.
[01:00:37] So changing your, your perspective or your frame of reference, or at least, um, getting still enough to experience the unfolding nature of things rather than projecting as much, or, um, forcing or things like that. And, and kind of trying to remove layers of that expectation. Cause like you said, there is a lot of baggage behind all of that and that's okay as well.
[01:00:58] Like everything's okay. And we don't need to put so much pressure on having things be a certain way, but once we can do that, it seems as though our whole version of. Reality changes. And I think that actually, especially when you consider the idea of, um, bringing in different people in communities and multiple people doing that in some kind of an accelerated, amplified effect of that, I feel that's actually what changes the story of the world.
[01:01:26] And you can do that. Um, you know, by doing that, you're actually forming what reality is. And I think, um, there's a sense of presence in there that I think contributes to the blossoming of that, of that new story of that emerging ever emergent story. So that's what really excites me is being able to kind of cultivate the practice of getting into that space because it seems.
[01:01:51] You know, we dip in and out of it, we remember, we forget, we, we, we, we kind of, sometimes we're all over the place and other times where I completely with it. And it's a sense of kind of, um, gradually going through the process of all of that, running that bike into the wall a couple of times, you know, learning through the process, um, speaking to people that are wise is this teacher that you've mentioned, or even people like yourself, like we're doing now.
[01:02:17] And I'm gradually getting to the point with different forms of support and, um, you know, this balance between, um, moving into and allowing, um, and then, you know, it just seems like. That's kind of what it's all about for me anyways, and yeah. Why I'm doing all of this to help people on that, on that journey.
[01:02:39] Even if, if it does help, I don't even know if it would, but it's a sense of like at least attempting to participate in that process. Yeah.
[01:02:48] Guest: Well, you know, it's interesting, there's, there's a kind of person that I've met in my life and you've met them too. And they're the ones who are so busy planning, how they're going to do a thing that they never actually get around to doing that thing.
[01:03:02] And, and even just say myself. Yeah. Well hearing what you were just talking about, about, you know, having the intentionality, finding that place in yourself to be open, to experience these things. I think. And I say this as somebody who's coming from the same place as you. I think that's kind of probably the wrong relationship.
[01:03:25] I think it's really, it's, it's like my experience on my bike with my dad, you know, it's that I only started doing it when I stopped worrying about doing it. Somebody else had my back, he was balancing me. I don't have to think about it anymore. And then all of a sudden I was doing, and, and I say this as somebody who has spent their whole life wanting to be in control and wanting to be able to manifest specific outcomes.
[01:03:57] I be frustrated when I couldn't. And I think really there's something to be said for the idea of just being, and don't try to figure out how to be don't don't bring a process to it. You know, exist in that moment, exist in that space exists in that emptiness and that potential, there's this principle of particles and quantum physics, where you can observe the position or you can observe the velocity, but once you've made that observation, you've altered that other characteristic.
[01:04:41] And, and I think that that applies.
[01:04:45] Host: How does that apply? This is twisting my mind a little bit. How does that apply?
[01:04:49] Guest: Because I think, I think when you try to direct an experience, like, like with the, the blank paper in the art class, if I'm trying to force myself to be. If I, if I'm trying, you know, just like if you observe the one characteristic of that particle, you you've taken an action.
[01:05:14] So if I'm sitting there in front of that paper and I'm telling myself, I must take an action and, and, and, and there's resistance, and I'm just pushing in that direction. That's opposed to that resistance. I'm just going to upset myself. But if I just let that go, if I say my intention is to create something.
[01:05:34] So if I just let that go, what if I just exist with that potential? What if I recalibrate my relationship that has potential and I don't have to alter it, I don't have to affect it because, because yes, from a literal point of view, you putting your pen on that paper and making a mark, you are effecting it, but I'm saying you do it, not in an intentional way.
[01:05:58] You don't put the pen there to draw a circle. You just. And where does the hand go? What does it to follow it? Discover it, um, experience it don't measure it. Don't quantify it. Don't direct it. And it will tell you a story. And it's, I think it's, it's true of so many things in life. And I imagine that you can share experiences, uh, along these lines.
[01:06:31] Host: Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like the question of how is a bit more relevant. It's it's more of just the, just the, it's just the allowing of some sort and a following of another. Yeah,
[01:06:46] Guest: I think it's just to be, I think once you decide that your context is potential, be that a piece of paper be that meditation, be that.
[01:07:02] Life. I think once you see it as limitless, infinite potential, you have a different relationship to it. And again, I'm not saying this as somebody who's mastered it. I'm saying it as somebody who has been brutally evicted from my comfort zone and trying to find meaning. And that's what I think I'm saying.
[01:07:27] Yeah.
[01:07:28] Host: Does does something about hearing a deep truth and just feeling, feeling, feeling that, and I'm feeling that right now. So yeah, I think there's definitely something there. Yeah. To take note of, um, there's this idea of you, I've heard, you mentioned this before making a contract with yourself and. You know, I think it was in the context of you saying that you're an artist and then in a sense, allowing that to be some kind of a guiding star.
[01:08:03] Yeah. Have you, would you be able to talk a little bit about that process or that experience or, or like how that even came into being, and, and I, I'm sure it's a nice way to loop back into the initial, you know, why we have these dreams and ambitions is because we want to feel something. Um, but I thought, yeah, it might be a nice way to kind of, you know, circle
[01:08:28] Guest: back.
[01:08:30] Well, I th I think there are two aspects to it. One aspect is this, um, you were talking earlier about the things you want in life, and maybe you had a little bit of a habit of just kind of letting, letting it happen around you. I'm a big believer in declaring what you want in life and saying. I want to be a cinematographer.
[01:08:52] I want to be, you know, uh, a world leader. I want to be somebody who inspires and helps people, whatever that is for you. I think that it's important. You can't, you can't just go around a question mark, because when, when people hear those things, If they're the right people, they see you as that potential and they hold you accountable to live up to that.
[01:09:17] Um, so, so I think there's something to be said to be said for that, um, all my life. I've seen people who say they want to thing, but then I look at their day-to-day lives and they don't live. Like the person who wants that thing. They say they want, you know, they say, I want to buy a new car. And then every payday they go and they party with their friends and they have no money left.
[01:09:44] I'm not judging them. You can do that. But to me that doesn't look like the person who's committed to getting that new car. And if that's what you want to do, if you want a party, then maybe you need a second job. I don't know. But for me, I need, and I look at my life. I need to see alignment generally between the things I say I want and the things that I do.
[01:10:06] And if I don't see alignments, then I have to ask myself, do I really want those things? And then if I do then, then what am I going to do? What am I going to give up? And that's what I mean, that's part of what I mean by the contract is if I make that contract and I say, I'm going to buy that new car. Well, that contract has, you know, it has, it has expectations built into it that, well, in order for you to have that car, you have to do these things and you have to sacrifice those things.
[01:10:38] And you have this period of time and you, you know, you have to, uh, behave in certain ways. Otherwise you are in breach of the contract. And, um, the other, the other part of it, and I guess this is really just more of the same thing. I believe when I originally said that it was an interview in an interview, um, where I was talking about my shyness and how overwhelming it could be.
[01:11:02] And I was examining how it was harming at this point, how it was harming my, my momentum and my ability to get results. I very specifically remember, you know, I would, I had a list like you had where I had like, oh, in 10 years, five years, one year, this is what I want. And I kind of broke that down, like the elephant into the constituent parts.
[01:11:23] And I mapped out monthly, weekly, daily goals. So like every day I was doing the thing, I check off the box, I looked like the guy who actually wants what he says he wants. Well, I realized after a fact, like my goals were really shitty. Like, I'll make so many calls. You call people, you send out resumes, you might as well flush those down the toilet.
[01:11:46] It's those aren't meaningful connections. I know this now, but then I thought, Hey, I did a thing. I did something that was
[01:11:52] Host: uncomfortable. And like, yeah. How, how do you know when that's the case? Well,
[01:11:57] Guest: part of it, part of it was the lack of results. Part of it was seeing other people who were getting results and watching what they were doing differently.
[01:12:07] And part of it was it just, I don't know, it just kind of sank in at a certain point that just because you call some person and wind up on their own so-and-so called list, or you sent a resume for them to paper, the bottom of their birdcage with, you know, it's not doing anything. And I realized that it was the good Gary's people.
[01:12:28] It was the people who built the relationships, you know? And I've said this many times, this. Business of relationships. It's all about your friends. You want to hire your friends and the people you like, and you don't get to know people in like people just cause of resumes, slides across your desk. Or you get a note that they called you 10 times.
[01:12:46] So when I had that realization, I thought, oh my God, this is because I'm shy. This is because I'm scared to have a face to face. This is because I'm scared. I mean, I'm calling them, but I'm secretly hoping they won't come to the phone. And then I get my check, but they don't have to actually talk to them.
[01:13:06] And it was like, okay, well that's just really crappy. And um, so it was hard. Of course it was hard, you know, things in life, John Kennedy said, you know, we go to the moon. Not because it is easy, but because it is hard and. Great things, you know, you have to be in a place of discomfort to grow. You have to push yourself beyond the familiar and beyond the comfortable to be in a place.
[01:13:31] That's got the potential. What maybe it's that white piece of paper, maybe it's that meditation. But if you're in a space of potential, there's growth, if you're in a space that's filled with your baggage and your luggage and everything, you know, not so much, you know, you're not, you're not really called to be anybody different and you're not in an environment prom prime to catalyze that.
[01:13:55] And, um, so you know, part of the contract is that, is that is that I wanted to be a filmmaker more than I wanted to be shy. I was, I committed to being a filmmaker. Yes. Was I committed to being shy? Hell no. I mean, it didn't give me any pleasure. It still doesn't and I'm not saying it's gone away. I still deal with.
[01:14:20] But, you know, we all have the crosses, we bear some visible, some not visible and no matter what your cross is, if you are able to find a way to work in spite of it or to make it work for you, or like we were talking about earlier, ask for help and not an island, ask somebody for help. Um, and I think people want to help.
[01:14:47] I mean, people care, I believe that they care and they want for you what you want for yourself. Um, and so, uh, the point being that that's what the contract with myself is. Um, uh, there was a, there was another point at which I, I had a house and I had some life changes where the economy took a downturn and my clients transitioned that I was in the middle of, of a bad breakup with a partner.
[01:15:15] And so my finances were in trouble. Change. And that house came into jeopardy where I had to say, well, am I gonna, am I going to sell this house? Am I going to keep this house? If I keep this house and I keep doing what I'm doing, I probably can't afford it. Am I willing to do something else? Am I willing to say, oh, well, I'll be, you know, an engineer or whatever.
[01:15:38] It wouldn't have been that, but you know, will I do something more lucrative? And I had to be honest with myself and have one of those come to Jesus conversations where I'm like, okay, no cards are off the table. What does this look like? And I realized I had the epiphany that I was going to be an artist.
[01:15:58] I couldn't be anything else. If I chose a more lucrative career path and I had that house, I would come to resent that house for everything it took away from me, I would, I would be so angry and, and never enjoy it. And I realized that no matter what. No matter how difficult the road of being creative was.
[01:16:21] That's what I had to do. I mean, and that's it. Creativity pervades my life. All the little side projects I've talked to you about tonight are all different creative manifestations. That's, that's where I'm comfortable. I'm not very comfortable around people. I don't know. And I'm not comfortable at all dealing with money.
[01:16:38] There's a lot of things that I don't think I'm good at. And, um, but creativity is, is like my comfort zone. It's the space where I, it's not forced and it's natural. So it, it was reasonable for me to make those contracts. It was reasonable for me to declare that that was the thing that I was. And of course at the time it came with a bunch of it, my expectations of what that looked like and life as it has a way of doing beat the living shit out of me and, and, and, and corrected me.
[01:17:12] And so now I'm listening, I'm just paying attention. I'm like, oh, Well, none of these things turned out in the way that I thought they would. I'm not saying they're not good. I've got a lot of really great things, a lot of wonderful projects and friends and, you know, but still a lot of unfulfilled hopes and expectations.
[01:17:32] So, so all of that journey might, my contract is still intact, but like I said to you earlier, what I've had to learn is that it's not always about taking a hold of the wheel and forcing it. You know, maybe, maybe what my contract stipulates at this moment is to sit down and shut up. Just like if your lawyer tells you in court, you know, don't tell him everything, just sit down and shut up and, and let, let let the natural course of events unfold.
[01:18:04] So that's kind of what I'm doing.
[01:18:07] Host: Yeah, thank you for being so open and sharing so much in that, in that space. I think I've just really needed to hear a lot of that. So I really appreciate it. Um, I, I, I know I'm just conscious of time here and I kind of want to be a little bit selfish and ask you one personal question, um, before we kind of, yeah.
[01:18:26] Move on to kind of closing things off, but I was, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about this idea of having all these creative endeavors and projects and, and, you know, things going on in your mind that really lights you up inside, um, you know, in different spaces and then transitioning the transitioning between those, like when do you bring them in, when is the right time?
[01:18:52] And, and, and that process, I feel like that's, cause it seems like you've only got so many, um, little, um, pieces of, or whatever you want to call it. Little bits of. Energy and focus and, and motivation and it's and time, you know, so it's like this sense of, you know, and, and things deserve, uh, focus, energy and time.
[01:19:19] If they're going to be anything, or if they're going to, you know, interact with you and you're going to have that relationship with them, these projects, creative endeavors. So how do you transition between them? How do you know when the right time is for one and, and, and like, cause it is quite sad, like you just pointed to something that I felt quite deeply, and it's a sense of like, you know, I've got, I've got this beautiful idea and it's just like sitting there on the, on the shelf and maybe it's a more of a long-term thing, but it's like, and I've got multiple ones of those and it's kinda sad to see them wither away sometimes.
[01:19:55] Um, even though, you know, what you're currently working on is, is meaningful and significant. Yeah.
[01:20:05] Guest: I wish I had, I wish I had the universal rule. I cannot, I can only tell you about my relationship to it. Um, a lot of people want to put, put things in a box and they want to put labels on them and they want to say, Brad, you're a, you're a filmmaker. And these other things are hobbies. And if that works for their experience to put those labels on it, okay, I'm not taking that on because that's not how I experienced to me.
[01:20:34] They're all manifestations of the same energy. It's like putting on different clothes every day, one day, maybe I'm writing and one day maybe I'm filming and one day maybe I'm playing music or doing photographs or art, and it's all coming from the same place. And my relationship with it is very similar.
[01:20:54] Um, No. I had an experience during the pandemic where I, you know, we're all sitting at home, what the hell are we going to do? And I pulled these boxes out of storage and they had a bunch of multi-track tapes of recordings, of music that I had made. And I just said, well, I'm going to digitize it. That's one of my busy jobs that I never get around to.
[01:21:18] So let's, let's digitize and it was surprised at how good they were and how much I liked the music. And I had forgotten, I had assumed I had written maybe 10 songs, there's like 60. Um, and, and of those 60, 30 or 40 actually had recordings begun. And, uh, so then I sort of slowly evolved into thinking, well, maybe I should do something with them.
[01:21:47] And, and this was that whole process of, of. When I was in college and in high school, I was a fine art major. I wasn't a film major and it switched over to a film major, but also all those years of high school and college, I played music and I wrote music and I recorded music. And all of this, you know, was, was my life.
[01:22:07] And when I became serious about film, I was like, okay, gotta focus. And I just kind of set those things aside, thinking that I'd be picking them up again soon. And every once in a while I would return to music and I write a song here. I'd write a song there, but I would have these friends who would go and play gigs or record songs.
[01:22:26] And I was so happy for them. And I was thinking, man, I wish that I had had what they had, which I could do that. I wish I had that balance. And, um, Because of the things that happened. I was, I was like, you know what, I'm going to put on my oxygen mask. And I am going to do, I'm going to do things that, to me look very selfish.
[01:22:48] That's putting myself first. If I'm going to do stuff that makes me happy, I'm going to stop worrying first about everybody else. I'm not saying I'm changing my lifestyle, but I'm in a space where I was so unhappy and I was so much in free fall, but I thought I have to create happiness or I'm in trouble.
[01:23:09] And so what that looked like was this very selfish. I'm going to do what hell I want to do. You know, not in a way that I'm mean to people, but in a way that I kind of pulled in and, and was like, this is what I'm doing now. And this is what I'm focusing on. And this is where I'm spending my money and I don't need approval.
[01:23:26] In fact, I decided that my sin, my soul expectation, I didn't have any commercial expectations and I don't care if anybody else likes it. I care that it makes me. And I've been a hundred percent successful at that goal. So that's what it looked like for me was, was doing that. And, and, and in, in all that time, I've, I've still been doing movies.
[01:23:51] Um, the other thing that happened during the pandemic is like you, I had these things on the shelf. I had to screenplay ideas and I'm not a screenwriter, but at these two screenplay ideas that I just fell in love with one was a real person who I just was a sidebar. I found in a magazine and the other was the science fiction idea that was timely 20 years ago.
[01:24:12] And it's still time. And I said to myself, like, what you're saying, are these just going to die? When I die? You know, I had this very strong sense of mortality because of my debilitating depression and the loss of my parents, where I'm thinking, I just want to be where they are, you know, screw everything.
[01:24:29] Uh, and so I'm like, you know, if I end the stuff with. The dust. And I had one of those commitments with myself where I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to do something. And so what it looked like with the music was, was that intentionality and that structure of let's get it done it because there were so many songs.
[01:24:53] I mean, I, I can play a lot of instruments, but I was like, if I try and play everything, it'll take years. So, you know, I reached out to friends and some friends had time and other friends didn't have time. So I found this great website called Fiverr, or you can get these amazing, talented people. I have people all over the world who've contributed.
[01:25:15] Um, this is the project I alluded to you about where I said, I invited some dream collaborators who surprisingly said yes. Um, And then with the scripts, I'm not a writer. And I, and I, and I was stuck. I was stuck in both of them like how to proceed. So I delegated, so that's my answer to you is find people who are as passionate for one reason or another as you, and get them on board.
[01:25:42] And it may not be the people you think, or that you hope, and you can't make them wrong for that. Um, you know, a lot of the people who I thought of for some of these projects just weren't the right people. And then these other people who are new to my life just showed up with this luminous enthusiasm, you know?
[01:26:03] And in fact, even some of these high value music, collaborators who are people that, you know, are legends to me, I'm humbled by their enthusiasm. Um, and, and yet then there are some of these mid-level people who are just very cranky and entitled and weird. So it's just been a strange. Strange experience.
[01:26:24] And, and it's kind of been one of the things that's pushing me to not direct and manipulate, but just to lean in to the way that the river is flowing. And the other thing that I would tell you is that, that fortunately I love all of these things because I have what would look to most people like no personal life.
[01:26:46] I don't watch television. I don't go out much. I, I work on these projects. I do zooms. I do calls. I work on the recordings and I'm learning things too. This is, I was thinking about this just today because some of this stuff has been a lot more expensive than I had hoped. And I'm kind of bummed about that.
[01:27:06] But then I think, you know, if you actually went to school, To learn to do some of this shit because, you know, even the, well, I know the instruments and I know I have my sense of music. You know, I'm learning pro tools and I'm learning all of these plugins and all of this crazy tech crap. And I have the benefit of sitting down by professionals and I can ask them questions and they're teaching me things same with the scripts.
[01:27:30] You know, I'm talking to my collaborators and I'm having relationships with producer, friends and, and industry friends that we've known each other for years, but not like this, this hasn't been the dynamic. So all of this has been part of me becoming a new person and a different person and, and come 20, 22, I'm going to be different and I will still be a cinematographer.
[01:27:53] I still love film. I've got two movies coming out. I'm going to always keep doing it, but. The dynamics are different. And, and I am spending a lot less time pushing that Boulder up the hill so I can do these other things that I love. And also, like I said, you know, I, I have sacrificed things that others do.
[01:28:20] Um, you know, and I'm, I'm also a little bit of a workaholic. I work all kinds of crazy hours and, and just don't let go. But in terms of, in terms of being an intent, intentional and balance, I'm also like, okay, well, you've got to eat regularly. You got to eat good food. That's part of the deal too, because my mode, when I do things like this is to forget eating until two o'clock in the morning.
[01:28:42] And then you order in some, you know, crap from Denny's or well, I don't know if that's the answer you want, but that's, that's kind of if I took this.
[01:28:54] Host: Yeah. There's no expectations and I love that answer. Yeah. So it seems, yeah, it seems like there's quite a few things going on and I was wondering, yeah, I totally get, I resonate with a lot of what you've just shared and I guess we could keep talking for hours, but I feel like, um, it might be nice to share, you know, show people a little bit about like what you, what you're up to and what you've got in the, in the pipe works and what's upcoming.
[01:29:22] So is there anything, um, any, if someone wanted to find out more. Yourself, where would you send them? Is there anything you'd like them to kind of see or radar, or what's kind of on upcoming at the moment? I know you've just had that recent release on Netflix. Is that right? So
[01:29:39] Guest: well that had had the California Christmas was last December, the sequel, California, Christmas to city lights comes out December 16th, calendars, Marquis calendar.
[01:29:51] Um, and then in March, I've got a movie that I shot also a Netflix original called that some more. Okay. Cool. And, uh, and then we've also got a, um, a music video that we shot for an artist on the voice. And, uh, I just saw a rough cut of that today. I'm really, really excited. And, you know, if people want to know what's going on with me, the two things that I would suggest everybody loves Instagram.
[01:30:15] So follow Instagram, uh, I mostly keep that professional. Um, but if you really want to get to know me and interact with me, then jump on Facebook. I'm a little more kind of myself there. And I, I do also share the professional stuff. Um, you know, some people have, like I said, bad experiences with it, but I find that if you regard it as a garden and you pull the weeds in terms of the aggravating people and influences that you can turn it into a very, very nice place.
[01:30:46] And, uh, that's what I've created. I literally scroll down and I'm thinking, does this person consistently make me happy? Do they bring value? And that value can be challenged. It can be stimulating me, but it has to be value. It can't be that just pissing me off and making me hate the world. Um, but anyway, so, so those are the two I'm most active on a little, little active on, on LinkedIn.
[01:31:11] But, uh, that would be, that would be where to check in. And then, like I said, I have a publicist, so we'll be doing like, I've got six more interviews coming up. I've got a, uh, an article that I'm supposed to do for stage 32. Um, the podcast is, is, is in the formative stages. Uh, the podcast, the music, all of that stuff is not going to happen until 2022.
[01:31:35] I just, um, it's, it's, it's happening. It's being built right now, but I'm not gonna push myself to, to cut that loose until we got to get through California Christmas, because that's going to be, it's a lot of work, all the publicity. Exactly, exactly. You know, plus I don't want to burn people out. I don't want people to get sick of me.
[01:31:56] I don't want to be, you know, just dump it all. And there you go. Cause, cause you know, that won't work at either.
[01:32:02] Host: And you mentioned earlier that you meant, or you have mentored in the past film students.
[01:32:09] Guest: For years for years. I mean, I actively mentor and not just students, young filmmakers, older filmmakers who are new filmmakers.
[01:32:18] I mean, anybody who wants advice really? I mean, I, I try to give it, I try to be open. Um, you know, because there are these videos, it's very advantageous. I mean, one of the things that I really want to see that people have skin in the game, one thing that I learned early on was I would just invest myself and I spent all this time talking to people who are just like, yeah, nevermind on.
[01:32:40] It. Just drove me ape shit. And one of the things that I did way back then is there was a book. There was a particular book and I would say, read this book. And after you've read this book, come talk to me. So that served two purposes, one, it knocked a lot of the fundamentals out of the way. And two, it showed me that they were committed and they would take actions.
[01:33:01] Well, it was called how to make it in Hollywood, but it's it's, it was published in the nineties and I, it's not been updated and it's pretty, pretty ancient. Um, honestly I would say Eric, his book, um, meant for this as is what I would send to people now, but that's the other thing is that how to make it in Hollywood was very dry and very old school, you know, dusty cigarette smoke in, you know, infused wood-paneled room kind of feel.
[01:33:30] And Eric has his sunshine and light and radiance. Fun and joy. So, you know, Redarc is book that's the one to do meant for this. Um, but the other thing that I do is I have them watch these podcasts and maybe some of the other interviews and also have this really long list of, um, of, uh, links and resources that I've collected over the years.
[01:33:54] And it's broken down, you know, stuff for directors, stuff for DPS stuff, for editors, yada, yada. And I just send them all out on site, look through this shit. And then if you have questions and, and if they come back to me asking really simple stuff that makes me realize they didn't even try. I, um, you know, they get a proportional result, you know, response from me in terms of their own effort.
[01:34:17] Um, but the people that really throw themselves into it, I mean, look, I've had some mentees who just blew me away and I would go to bat for them. I would recommend them for jobs. I would hire them, not a lot of people, but certainly there are some stars. And, um, in fact, one of, one of them that I'm super proud of, um, a script supervisor named Katya low-band, uh, is, is working on the Jack Jack Ryan TV series in Europe.
[01:34:42] She's just finished a season three and they invited her back for season four. And it couldn't be more proud of such a humble, hardworking, just incredible person and so proud of her and, and all of her hard work and dedication. So funny, she, she confided in me the other day. She says, you know, I always worked so hard because I didn't want to let you down.
[01:35:06] And, and, and I mean, if that's, if that's the catalyst that, that you need, but it's also about not letting yourself down. I mean, I can give you the resources. I can point you in the direction. I can give you the information. I can open the doors. I can't walk through them for you. I can't make a good impression for you.
[01:35:25] I can't show up for you. I can't follow through for you if I make, if I make an introduction and you let it die, you know? So it's, so yeah, I mean, I've learned all of these things and that's what I mean by skin in the game. It really, at every, at every interval, I want to see that these people are invested.
[01:35:46] I want to see that they're putting in as much effort or more than I am, because, because if nobody's in the driver's seat, I'm just wasting my time and I've got too many people, you know, that would like me to help. And I just, I just can't, I can't spend the time for the people who aren't going to ride.
[01:36:03] Again, it comes down to what I, what I was saying earlier about, do you, does your life look like the person who says you want the thing you say you want? And I don't judge those people. Maybe they really don't want it. Maybe the reality is not what they expected. That's okay. I mean, I'm not mad at them, but you know, my expectation, no matter what you say you want, whether it's a haircut or a beer, or to be an astronaut.
[01:36:31] When I look at your day and I look at your week, I expect to see some indication of follow through in, in moving in that direction.
[01:36:43] Host: Yeah. I think that, yeah, that's what came up for me. That theme of what you just kind of articulated there and I think, yeah. There's there's a lot of things you can do to improve that.
[01:36:52] Like even tracking what you're actually doing and reflecting on that. And again, reflecting on your motivations and what's really going on there. Um, it's like
[01:37:03] Guest: what? It's like what I said when I was being ineffective and you know, you have the list every day and you check it, you just do the thing. Did you do the thing?
[01:37:11] Did you do the thing? And I had to evaluate and say, yeah, I did the things. They weren't the right things. They weren't good things. Now I have to, now I have to reinvent and I have to go to another place, you know, but Hey, Even that, even that, that wrong road was part of my journey. I mean, I had to go down that wrong road to learn a thing about myself that needed dealing with yeah.
[01:37:34] Host: There's a kindness of self that comes up for me in that space. Like being kind to yourself and understanding that you don't have to beat yourself up about it. Um, it's like, wait, we're here right now. We're not in the past. We're not in the future. Let's just be here.
[01:37:47] Guest: Yeah. But it's having that roadmap. It's having, you know, it's having, it's having those things you can be accountable for.
[01:37:56] And I, and I think also another thing I would recommend to you is having, having a buddy or buddies, having a group who all is up to something, it doesn't have to be the same thing. It could be your friend who wants to start a pizza place. And it could be your friend who, you know, once that relationship with that person that they've been practicing on.
[01:38:14] And then you all just sit there and. And you and you, and you support one another and hold each other
[01:38:20] Host: accountable or a women's group of some sort or some kind of a support network. They didn't
[01:38:25] Guest: have to be broken down by gender. It's a people's group. It's a dreamers group. That's a, what's your dream.
[01:38:29] Here's my dream.
[01:38:30] Host: Or some kind of a support network.
[01:38:32] Guest: Yeah. But it's somebody who that, you know, when you go in there is going to ask, what did you do this week? And it's not to make you feel bad or guilty. And if you, if you didn't do the thing, that'd be like, okay, moving forward. How do we empower you? Not beat you up and tell you you're a piece of shit.
[01:38:48] Um, and, and also when you come up against something and you're, and you say to me, I've got these, these ideas they're on the shelf. I don't know how to move forward. And they're pitching ideas. And maybe nine of those nine out of 10 of those ideas are not quite right, but that leaves one that could be right, or it could be close, or it could be like that line on the paper, in my art class that takes you to where you need to be.
[01:39:12] Host: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing so much wisdom. I feel like in this, you know, hour and a half or so, there's just been like bucket loads and I feel like it's almost like that list of links that you've provided and anyone listening out there that's found some, um, some help within those, uh, practical steps.
[01:39:33] So within those kind of lessons from your experience, I guess it's, yeah, it's all about just kind of absorbing those and moving into them.
[01:39:42] Guest: Um, well, one thing, one thing I would like to say just really quick, you know, a lot of people compliment me or say how meaningful the vulnerability is. And I want to say that that's a deliberate choice.
[01:39:54] You know, there's a lot of people who kind of build themselves up heroically and, and, you know, they want to look larger than life. And the mistake I feel with that is that other people see that, and it's an accessible because they're like. Yeah, I'm not that perfect. I'm not that I don't have it all figured out.
[01:40:14] I'm not that rich. I'm not that whatever. And I don't want people to listen to what I say or, or see what I do and say, ah, I could never have those things. You could have more, you could have everything you want, you know, and, and it's, and, and again, that's why that, I think that that film, courage interview about, you know, doing the steps, even when you don't believe in yourself is so powerful because, because people realize you don't have to be fixed.
[01:40:49] You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to wait and get the ship corrected before you move forward. You can move forward now. So in all of these things, I endeavored to take a knife and slit my chest open and expose my bloody, an imperfect interior. I don't care about making myself look good. That's not important to me.
[01:41:13] What is important to me as if I'm able to empower other people, you know? And, and if I can do that, if I can help them have the things that they want and the things that they dream about. And especially if those things involve making the world a better place for people and animals, then I want to give that, and it's a worthy sacrifice.
[01:41:36] Host: Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I was thinking about this recently, I've, I've started doing some mentoring myself in some kind of just supportive work for people. And I didn't really know how to pitch that. And I guess I didn't want to put that across as me being some kind of an expert on anything. Cause it's just not true.
[01:41:51] It's like, we're all going through this process and opening up and sharing those vulnerabilities really is a lot of the time, more, more beneficial to people that hear it. Because like you said earlier, like the story hits people at different parts of their own process, different stages of their own internal evolution.
[01:42:09] And I feel like this kind of role of just being someone that serves as support is better than building yourself up in any way. Um, yeah. For the people that you're trying to help. And just a sense of like thinking that, you know, best or thinking that, you know yeah. Like it's almost like an illusion that you're, that you're telling yourself at times, if you don't go down that path of vulnerability and openness.
[01:42:35] Guest: Well, every, every single one of us is an expert on at least one thing. That one thing is our personal experience. Yes. We have a unique mastery of that in all its glory and all its embarrassment. I think if we are authentic and real, and when we say we don't know, or we say it may not apply to you. Yeah.
[01:43:01] You know, just like my story about the bicycle, it wasn't, it wasn't your experience, but it was a catalyst to tap into something for you. So I think that's the best that any of us can do is have the intention of generosity and kindness and, and be vulnerable and real and honest. And, and that's, that's what you have to bring.
[01:43:23] And, and you are the expert in bringing those things.
[01:43:31] Host: That's a good place to put that full stuff in. Right.
[01:43:35] Guest: All right. Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate your, your time and I appreciate your interest and, um, a, uh, really enjoyed our conversation.
[01:43:44] Host: It's been great. Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to maybe touch base with you in six months to a year from now. If you'd be open
[01:43:49] to
[01:43:49] Guest: that, let's do that.
[01:43:50] Let's let's do that in fact, uh, yeah, that will be the aftermath of the second movie. And some of these other things will probably be in full motion by that time. So that'd be an interesting thing
[01:44:01] Host: to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. Well thank you again for being so open and vulnerable. It has been a pleasure and, um, yeah, I just feel invigorated and it's one of those feelings we spoke about earlier when you know that what you're doing is kind of you're in the right space in the right time, because this feels really good.
[01:44:16] So, um, you've got my appreciation, um, and my lot sending you my love and, um, yeah, enjoy the rest of your day or your night and yeah, best of luck with everything.
[01:44:28] Guest: Thank you. Take care. Bye.
[01:44:36] Host: Thank you so much for sharing your presence with me and for coming on this journey. If you're interested in working one-on-one with me, head over to today to rema.com to see what I may have on offer. And if you're interested at all in checking out some of the other videos, head over to youtube.com forward slash today, dreamer, or there'd be more content around cultivating the practice of presence in order to more fully contribute or participate in the blossoming of the emergent world story together, catch you in the next episode and be well.